Intoxicated Literature Podcast
A podcast with books, alcohol, and lots of laughter. Daniella and Evelyne are sisters who have always shared book recommendations with each other. Join us while we drink and discuss books in the paranormal romance, urban fantasy, and epic fantasy genres!
Intoxicated Literature Podcast
Gideon the Ninth
Evelyne and Daniella discuss Gideon the Ninth by Tamsyn Muir. Talking about this bonkers book and trying to distill it into a short summary was so much fun!
Announcer:
This is Intoxicated Literature.
Daniella Drake:
Hello. Welcome to Intoxicated Literature. I am Daniella Drake.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I'm Evelyne Crowe.
Daniella Drake:
And we are going to be discussing Gideon the Ninth, by Tamsyn Muir.
Evelyne Crowe:
I am so excited to be talking about this book, because it's one of my top reads, like ever in my life.
Daniella Drake:
Ever. Ever. For sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, I know it's popular, but it deserves it.
Daniella Drake:
For sure. This is one that the hype is correct.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
Also, though, when I finished this book, I was pissed. Because it was sold to me as lesbians doing necromancy.
Daniella Drake:
Oh, see. I heard, everyone that recommended it to me was, "Lesbians in Space."
Evelyne Crowe:
It's not, it's not it.
Daniella Drake:
That's not, no.
Evelyne Crowe:
N-O.
Daniella Drake:
That is not what I got.
Evelyne Crowe:
Don't tell people it's Lesbians in Space. Don't tell people it's lesbians doing necromancy. That is not what it is.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
It is sapphic, but that's not it.
Daniella Drake:
No. It's so much more.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's so much more than that.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
Just stop it.
Daniella Drake:
So before we get into it, spoilers.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
We will spoil this book.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh, we'll try.
Daniella Drake:
Although to be honest-
Evelyne Crowe:
It's really complicated.
Daniella Drake:
... yeah, I was just going to say, it's very dense and very complicated.
Evelyne Crowe:
And we're very drunk, so we're really sorry if we don't do justice to this book, because it's so good and complicated, and we're just so drunk.
Daniella Drake:
It is Intoxicated Literature, which is why you're hopefully listening. So yes, there's not spicy times-
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
... so don't worry about that, but there probably will be swearing, because we are intoxicated and this was a fucking good book.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was so good.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
What are we drinking tonight?
Evelyne Crowe:
Is it the Skeleton Key?
Daniella Drake:
We sure are. Can I just say, it is spicy.
Evelyne Crowe:
Spicy.
Daniella Drake:
It's bourbon, elderflower, lemon juice and ginger beer.
Evelyne Crowe:
With like eight shakes of bitters.
Daniella Drake:
And I have to tell you, it's got a bite. Every time I get a sip, I'm like, "Blegh."
Evelyne Crowe:
The thing is, is this book has a bite.
Daniella Drake:
It does. It does. It's appropriate.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's very fitting.
Daniella Drake:
It's appropriate. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Okay.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. So, cheers!
Evelyne Crowe:
Okay. No, I picked up this book thinking, "It's like your standard fantasy. It's going to be easy to read fast, not complicated, straight A to B fantasy." It is so not that. In any way.
Daniella Drake:
I had the exact same impression, and was just completely shell shocked.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I even warned you.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I even told you, "It is not that."
Daniella Drake:
You did. Yeah, you did. But because I had heard from so many different people, "Lesbians in Space," literally so many people told me-
Evelyne Crowe:
The marketing is so bad.
Daniella Drake:
... "You're going to love this book, it's Lesbians in Space." It doesn't even cover-
Evelyne Crowe:
Do it justice.
Daniella Drake:
... a third-
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
... what this book is.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, I don't even know what else you could do for it, honestly. Because it's so different.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. If someone asked me to just explain it in one sentence, I don't think I could.
Evelyne Crowe:
No, that's the thing. And social media being what it is, I don't know what else you could do.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. So I kind of understand the lesbian necromancers in space. That is-
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean really-
Daniella Drake:
The essence of it.
Evelyne Crowe:
... if you go down to its gut, that is what it is, I guess.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, you distill it down, that is it. But it is-
Evelyne Crowe:
Damn, that's so not what it is.
Daniella Drake:
I mean, it is a haunted mansion. It is a murder mystery. It is... I don't even, it's-
Evelyne Crowe:
Possession.
Daniella Drake:
... possession. It's sci-fi fantasy.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's a space opera.
Daniella Drake:
It is.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's a space opera.
Daniella Drake:
With necromancy. Yep, yep, yep. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. And I have to tell you that Gideon, as a main character, was phenomenal.
Evelyne Crowe:
I love Gideon because she's a fuck-up.
Daniella Drake:
She is, but she's also a smart-ass.
Evelyne Crowe:
She's a fuck-up smart-ass who doesn't give a fuck. And she still falls into success, somehow. And I love her for it.
Daniella Drake:
Same.
Evelyne Crowe:
And it's amazing.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
She just falls, and she just literally trips over herself into success, succeeding.
Daniella Drake:
That is exactly what happens. Constantly.
Evelyne Crowe:
Constantly.
Daniella Drake:
Every time she does anything, you're like, "Well, that really could have blown up in your face. And yet, somehow you pulled it off, so okay."
Evelyne Crowe:
I know. Like she was literally trying to flee, and run away. And then she becomes the knight. The knight, the number one person to escort the leader of her plan, to go somewhere and leave the area. Her plan succeeded in a different way.
Daniella Drake:
Just not quite as she intended.
Evelyne Crowe:
Exactly.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
So weird.
Daniella Drake:
And Harrow, too. In the beginning, because you're kind getting Harrow, or you're seeing Harrow through Gideon's eyes. And so, you don't like Harrow.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, you see her as goody-goody, who's always doing everything because that's how it's supposed to be done. Just following tradition.
Daniella Drake:
But also using Gideon as kind of like a whipping boy, taking out her frustration and her hurt, and whatever other feelings she has, on Gideon. Because she's convenient. And so Gideon is like, "Hate her." And so we kind of go, "Yeah, I hate her, too." And then you start to realize that she's a little bit more complex than maybe you gave her credit for. And very smart, very capable, very good at necromancy. So very powerful. So by halfway through the book, you're like, "Wait a second."
Evelyne Crowe:
A flawed narrator? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
You cannot trust anything you see in this book.
Daniella Drake:
No.
Evelyne Crowe:
Ever. I had a friend, actually, who loves this book. And the way she described it is, "The series of books was bonkers." And I have to agree.
Daniella Drake:
That's basically how I tried to explain it to my boyfriend. I was like, "It's bananas."
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. It's bonkers.
Daniella Drake:
Like, it's just, it's bonkers. Yeah, it's-
Evelyne Crowe:
It's fucking bonkers. And the thing is though is, it's amazingly bonkers. I love how bonkers it is, because I cannot predict anything that happens in this. And it's amazing, because I just want to find out what fucking happens.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I had no idea what was going on.
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
I could not even pretend to predict-
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
... because I was so just like, "I don't even know what is happening. So I'm just along for the ride."
Evelyne Crowe:
No, not a fucking clue. I went in thinking, "I've read every fantasy novel," well-known fantasy novel. I've read them all. I have read Wheel of Time, I've read Erickson, I've read all of the classics. I've done it. I've read romantasy. I have read so many books. I know the plots, I know the beats. I know them. And I went into this book thinking, "I will probably predict the ending." I could not fucking predict shit.
Daniella Drake:
I had no idea what was going on for 90% of this book.
Evelyne Crowe:
None. At the beginning. I'm going, "What the fuck is happening?"
Daniella Drake:
That's one of my favorite things, though, I feel like. Because I read some reviews, because I wanted to refresh myself for this book. And so many other reviews were, "I had no idea what was going on, but I love this book."
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
And that's basically how I felt. I did, by the end, I got it. Right?
Evelyne Crowe:
Right.
Daniella Drake:
But most of it, I was like, "I don't know what's happening right now. Where are we? Who are these people? What is the point?"
Evelyne Crowe:
That's the thing is, the plot is there, but it's all loose ends that are just kind of waving around in the air, and you have no idea how it's connected. For most of the book.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
And as the book is progressing, gradually, you can see how they are all tied together. But very slowly. It's not something... And then all of a sudden, by the end, you can see the beginnings of this Gideon knot that is forming. And you're like, "Wait. Wait." But I'm sure, by the time I read the second book, that Gideon knot's going to be fucking blown apart, and I'm going to have no fucking idea.
Daniella Drake:
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's going to happen. And I have not read the rest of the series. It is on my TBR, but because this book was so dense, I could not immediately jump into the next one. I had to take a little bit of a break. Not to say that that's bad at all, or I didn't like it. It's just you have to be in the right head space to make heads or tails of it. And I just haven't been, just because the state of the world right now is crazy, and I have been reading lighter stuff to compensate. But I fully intend to read the rest of the series because it is so good.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, I have the second book on my Kindle. It's there right now.
Daniella Drake:
It's so good. And the characters are complex. They're all interesting. They're all unique. I don't think I have ever read such a unique book series. Lik, ever.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because I have read all of the classics, because I have done all of that. I don't mean to brag, I sound like I'm bragging, but because I have done all of that, I look for things that are unique. And I look, that's what makes a five-star read for me, is I look for things that are just so fucking bonkers.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
This is bonkers.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, it is.
Evelyne Crowe:
It makes no fucking sense.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And then it does.
Daniella Drake:
The way that she utilizes the planets, never seen that before. The way that she utilizes even necromancy. Each planet has a specific skill set, when it comes to necromancy, that is so unique. The magic system, the world-building, was so good in this. And I think partly why I appreciate it so much is because there wasn't a lot of hand-holding. She kind of just dumps you in, and expects you to keep up.
Evelyne Crowe:
Dude, you are dumped in the fucking deep end, and said, "Swim."
Daniella Drake:
Yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
You better swim.
Daniella Drake:
I liked that, because a lot of the time I feel like they're holding your hand too much. And it's like, "Give me some credit. I'm smart enough to keep up." Whereas in this one I was like, "I'm treading water, but I'm not really making any headway."
Evelyne Crowe:
"I'm barely keeping my nose above the, I'm barely breathing here. I'm barely, barely. I would like a life raft, please." But she keeps you just above the waterline, and then by the end, you're just, "Holy shit."
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I mean, that last scene where Gideon literally throws herself off, onto the fence. And is like, "I'm making the decision for you," was so crazy. And it landed so well. I mean, I was crying.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh, God. I sobbed for the last quarter of this book.
Daniella Drake:
I was crying, and it was making hard for me to read it, because I couldn't see. But it was so good, because the setup and the payoff was so good. You basically spend the entire first 60% of this book trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. And then, at 60% you start to go, "Oh my God." And then this happens, and you're just like, "Holy shit. The main character is dead." Like, "What?"
Evelyne Crowe:
No, that's the thing. Is you're thinking, "No one ever kills the main character. Gideon's going to be the main character for the entire series." Nope.
Daniella Drake:
Nope.
Evelyne Crowe:
Nope. Just kidding.
Daniella Drake:
I mean, this basically, it made me think of Game of Thrones in a way. Because Ned Stark is killed, in that first book, and it's so shocking. That was one of the first books where I literally threw it, because I could not believe.
Evelyne Crowe:
I was so pissed. And part of the reason why I can't read, I haven't read the second book, is because I was so attached to Gideon.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, same.
Evelyne Crowe:
She's so great. And I was just like, "Well, fuck."
Daniella Drake:
Well, and there were so many great moments, because there's so much animosity between Gideon and Harrow, but then they have these small quiet moments, where they find common ground. And you start to kind of go, "Wait a minute. They're not as far apart as it seems." And then by the end, you're really shipping both of, you're like, "They're going to make it. This is great. They're falling in love. This is so good." And then the rug is just completely pulled out from underneath you.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah, yeah.
Daniella Drake:
I mean, yeah. It's just... The thought that had to have gone through, to make this plot work.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, I have to read the rest, if only to solve the puzzle that is Gideon.
Daniella Drake:
Gideon.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because I feel like she has to come back somehow.
Daniella Drake:
Well, she's a part of Harrow.
Evelyne Crowe:
She is a part of Harrow, because they make the... So there's, the way that whole empire is run, is there is the empire, the Emperor. And then he has these acolytes that they call them saints. And basically-
Daniella Drake:
Lyctors. Lyctors? Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Lyctors. Lyctors? Is that the word?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Something like that.
Evelyne Crowe:
And they are necromancers who have absorbed the soul of someone else, essentially, and all of their knowledge of fighting. And they become immortal, and that just sounds like not a good thing. And a lot of them have gone mad as a result of long life, and all of... It's not great.
Daniella Drake:
Mortals are not meant for immortality.
Evelyne Crowe:
No, they're not.
Daniella Drake:
Let's just be real.
Evelyne Crowe:
So the Emperor is looking for new ones. So that is what has been set up, in Gideon and the Ninth is, they're looking for new Lyctors to replace the ones that have gone mad or died, or fallen to the wayside. They call them saints because they're so long-lived, and have been around forever.
Daniella Drake:
And they're like protectors, supposed to be, right?
Evelyne Crowe:
And so once they've unlocked the secret of it, one of them immediately kills her knight. Like, immediately. No regrets, none whatsoever.
Daniella Drake:
No hesitation.
Evelyne Crowe:
And you're just like, "Jesus Christ, I don't think you're going to make a great Lyctor, that's insane. You have no empathy whatsoever. And obviously no bond to your knight." And Harrow was like, "Well, I can't do that. I love Gideon. I can't do that." And Gideon sacrifices herself.
Daniella Drake:
Because she has to. They're fighting this immortal being, that's been around for so long.
Evelyne Crowe:
With cancer, by the way. How fucked up was that?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, that, ugh. My God. Can you imagine?
Evelyne Crowe:
I couldn't even wrap my head around the fact that this person was dying, for centuries.
Daniella Drake:
No wonder she's like, "We need to end this. I've had enough."
Evelyne Crowe:
I don't blame her.
Daniella Drake:
Not at all. Not at all.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, that's fucked up.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, for sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
Fucked up. She was in misery for centuries. Fucked up. I don't blame her. Ugh.
Daniella Drake:
But there was no way that Harrow could fight her, without Gideon.
Evelyne Crowe:
But here's the thing about Gideon. I don't know what's up with Gideon. Gideon's weird. Gideon's weird. She's always been weird. She fell onto the Ninth Planet with her mom, out of nowhere, as an infant. She was a baby, right? From the sky. By rights, then she should have died, and then she didn't. And then when Harrow's parents gassed everybody to create a super necromancer-
Daniella Drake:
Well, because she couldn't carry a baby to term. Yes. Yep. They committed genocide, basically-
Evelyne Crowe:
It was-
Daniella Drake:
... to make sure that she could carry a baby. Yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
... awful.
Daniella Drake:
Yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
Not great. And she carries that guilt on her soul, and she's not happy about it. She also didn't die. She's the only survivor.
Daniella Drake:
Not the only one. The knight, or not knight, what did they call them? Cavalier. Cavalier is the term that they use, which is technically knight. But he was the other one that survived.
Evelyne Crowe:
Okay. So two survivors, out of all of them.
Daniella Drake:
And it was only those two.
Evelyne Crowe:
Only those two. Which is weird. And then when they were fighting, that one mechanism in that whole haunted mansion thing, I think she died like twice, and came back.
Daniella Drake:
I think she was on the brink of death, but I'm not sure that she actually died.
Evelyne Crowe:
I don't know, man. I don't know if she can die.
Daniella Drake:
I mean, when she first comes to the Ninth Planet, which is Pluto, which isn't a planet anymore, which I find hilarious. But-
Evelyne Crowe:
Technically, this is a made-up world, or universe. This is not our universe. Technically.
Daniella Drake:
Technically. But also, yeah. But she is attached to some kind of health apparatus. And yes, her mom has died. Her mom is brain-dead, but her body is still alive because of this health apparatus, so she's still alive. Right? And then she falls, but there's no record of her. They don't know where she came from. They don't know who she is, why she's there, any of that. So I mean, there is kind of a question of, how is she alive?
Evelyne Crowe:
That's the thing. We don't don't know a lot about her, or where she came from, or what she is.
Daniella Drake:
But could Harrow become a Lyctor if Gideon didn't die, and she didn't absorb her soul?
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, that's the thing is, what's going on now that she's absorbed Gideon's soul?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's a question.
Daniella Drake:
That's a good question. Because I haven't read the rest of the series, so I don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I have a friend who has read it, and she's just like, "Ha ha ha ha, you think you know, you don't know. Ha ha, it's bonkers." I'm like, "Great. That's awesome."
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. If you thought this book was bonkers, I think the next book's even more bonkers.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, it's on my Kindle, and now I have to read it. Because she has stoked my curiosity.
Daniella Drake:
That's fair.
Evelyne Crowe:
She has a kick-ass tattoo, too. Did you see that?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. It was pretty cool.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh!
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Beautiful skull. It's amazing. Oh my God, it's so good.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Anyway, so yeah. So every planet has its own... So it's like the First, Second, Third, the Fourth, the Fifth, and all the way up to the Ninth Planet. And each planet has its own, I don't know, flavor of necromancy.
Daniella Drake:
Skill?
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Specialty?
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I can't remember exactly what the Ninth is.
Daniella Drake:
It's so complicated.
Evelyne Crowe:
It is so complicated. It's so complicated.
Daniella Drake:
But also, the Ninth is dying.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's dying.
Daniella Drake:
Because they don't have any children. They literally, so they are the guards of the Locked Tomb.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. They are protecting the Locked Tomb, which is like the heretic.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. And it's important to keep this person in there, and locked away.
Evelyne Crowe:
We never learn anything about them, because no one is allowed to know anything about them. It's like, a heretic, they're just bad.
Daniella Drake:
Except that Harrow opened the door, and fell in love with her.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know. She wasn't supposed to do that.
Daniella Drake:
Wasn't supposed to. But, yeah. So the Ninth Planet is dying. They can't have children. Her parents tried to have children multiple times, could not do it. Finally, killed all of the children on the planet, in order to make sure that she conceived. And Harrow was born. And... I can't even imagine. I cannot even imagine living with that, as Harrow.
Evelyne Crowe:
No. Harrow just feels immense guilt in that whole thing.
Daniella Drake:
Yep. And it wasn't her choice. She didn't choose that. That was something, that was something, it was beyond what she wanted. But the choice was out of her hands. But then Gideon comes along, and Gideon's like, "I don't want to be here, either. I want to get out of here." She tries to escape like 28 times-
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
... or something crazy.
Evelyne Crowe:
So many times. She's always caught. Always.
Daniella Drake:
But I love Gideon so much, because Gideon is such a smart-ass.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
And lucky. Like, ridiculously lucky, but also incredibly skilled with a sword.
Evelyne Crowe:
She really isn't. It's funny because she's picked as the Chevalier, or hero-
Daniella Drake:
Cavalier.
Evelyne Crowe:
Whatever. I'm going to say Chevalier-
Daniella Drake:
Okay.
Evelyne Crowe:
... of Harrow, to go on this. "I'm going to become the new Lyctor for the Emperor." And she's pissed about it. She's like, "I don't want to go on this thing. I'm actually not that good." And everyone on the Ninth Planet is like, "You're really not that good. You're shit, actually." But the fact is, she may not be good as a technical sword fighter, but she's really good at adapting.
Daniella Drake:
And reading her opponent.
Evelyne Crowe:
Whereas, someone who is trained is not, they're more rigid.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. It's actually funny because one of the first duels she fights, on the first planet, she technically wins only because her duelist had all the proper forms, all the proper footwork. As a duelist, was beyond reproach. But because she was able to adapt and change her techniques and stuff, she technically was better, because she wasn't relying just on form.
Evelyne Crowe:
Exactly.
Daniella Drake:
And that's kind of where her strength lies, is being able to just be like, "Oh, this person is way stronger than me, so I need to do this." Or, "Oh, this person is way faster than me, so I need to do this." And it's not just one size fits all.
Evelyne Crowe:
Exactly.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's almost like Clue, but with necromancy.
Daniella Drake:
It is, it really is. But also science, and religion, and dueling. There's so many aspects to this book.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because, what? It's not Hunger Games, because there's a murder mystery happening. But they also have to solve clues. It's so weird.
Daniella Drake:
It's so weird.
Evelyne Crowe:
There's so much going on. It's so good.
Daniella Drake:
It's so good.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
And it's so hard to explain.
Evelyne Crowe:
And then they have these monk guys, who are their servants, who are around. And it's so funny because when I first met the first one, I'm like, "This guy's weird."
Daniella Drake:
Teacher?
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
I remember going, "This guy is weird. I don't like this guy."
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And everyone's like, "This guy's totally cool. He's really awesome." I'm like, "No, he's not. He's totally weird." And then he's dead the entire time.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Like, he's been dead for centuries.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like a ghost.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I'm like, "Dude."
Daniella Drake:
Weird. So weird.
Evelyne Crowe:
Fucking weird, man.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
I just felt so vindicated though, because I felt totally freaked out by that guy, the entire time.
Daniella Drake:
I totally agree. The first time you meet him, you're like, "You're odd. Something is off with you. What is going on?" But also, the first night, the shuttles literally, they get pushed off the platform and are gone. They are literally trapped there.
Evelyne Crowe:
There is... This is going to sound really weird. Very weird. There is a movie... God, what is the guy's name who was in Blazing Saddles, and in another movie by Mel Brooks?
Daniella Drake:
Gene Wilder.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. And it's a haunted mansion movie, that has him in it. It's going to sound weird, I know. It's kind of like that movie.
Daniella Drake:
Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I have to look this up now, because what the fuck are you talking about?
Evelyne Crowe:
This is like a cult, cult, I saw it once as a kid. It sounds so bizarre, but it really reminds me of that, because shit is going fucking weird. It's not the Frankenstein movie.
Daniella Drake:
Haunted Honeymoon?
Evelyne Crowe:
Maybe? I saw it. I was in fifth grade. I was young.
Daniella Drake:
That came out in 1986.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yep. Sounds about right.
Daniella Drake:
So that's probably it, which was definitely after the Young Frankenstein, which is what I thought you were talking about, but.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yep.
Daniella Drake:
Haunted Honeymoon. I kind of vaguely remember that. That's what you thought of, when you read this book?
Evelyne Crowe:
It's just a bunch of weird, random shit happens.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like you're in a place, and you have no concept for what will actually happen around you. It's bonkers.
Daniella Drake:
It is bonkers. I mean, that is the best description of this book. For sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's bonkers.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, you have what you think is supposed to happen, because there's a competition, and you're going to do these tasks, and you're going to go forth, and new Lyctors will emerge at the end. And you go into the book thinking, "That is what will happen." And it's so not what fucking happened.
Daniella Drake:
No.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because it's bonkers.
Daniella Drake:
Well, and poor Harrow, she doesn't want to ascend. She doesn't want to become a saint. She doesn't want to become a Lyctor, because that means that now Gideon is no longer there. And she's like, "Morally, that's wrong. I don't want that." And the other, Ianthe or whatever her name was, no hesitation. So then the question becomes, does that make Harrow a better candidate? Does that make her a better Lyctor? Because morally, she's like, "I didn't want this. I didn't ask for it, but here I am"?
Evelyne Crowe:
Right.
Daniella Drake:
So there's a lot of moral questions too, that come up, and that's partly why they're all here. They have to go through these trials, essentially, to figure out even how to ascend. And then have to choose to take the final step. And the Emperor is like, "Yeah, it kind of fucking sucks. It's not great. And when I discovered what it was, I wasn't happy about it either. But now you're here. So, yeah. Yes."
Evelyne Crowe:
And Harrow is just like, "Well, fuck you."
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
"Maybe just don't do this anymore."
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. She was so not happy.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because not only is Harrow against the whole concept, now she has Gideon's soul inside of her.
Daniella Drake:
Inside of her. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
She has Gideon's fighting skills, and her knowledge of that, inside of her. So she doesn't just get to say goodbye to Gideon and mourn her, because she has Gideon inside of her. She carries her everywhere. So she has that added guilt to everything else that she has, in her life.
Daniella Drake:
Right.
Evelyne Crowe:
Now. She has that too.
Daniella Drake:
Yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
Jesus Christ.
Daniella Drake:
It's kind of fucked up.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's fucked up.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. But also-
Evelyne Crowe:
Totally fucked up.
Daniella Drake:
... so good.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's so good.
Daniella Drake:
It's handled so well.
Evelyne Crowe:
It really is. You can hear Gideon's voice talking to Harrow, as the transfer is happening. And I was sobbing.
Daniella Drake:
I was too.
Evelyne Crowe:
I was sobbing, openly sobbing, while I was reading the end of this book. And I am not one to cry that hard, at books. But you become so attached to these characters during the course of reading this book. All of them.
Daniella Drake:
And this is the end of the book. This is, you're so close to the end, and so you think they're going to make it. They're going to be the two that make it. And that is not at all what happens.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, and you're also discovering that there was a traitor in their midst, who was killing competitors.
Daniella Drake:
But not for the reasons you think.
Evelyne Crowe:
Not for the reasons you think, not because they wanted to be a Lyctor, not because they were trying to get ahead. Literally because they do not want Lyctors anymore.
Daniella Drake:
At all. They want to entice the Emperor to come there, so they can kill them and end Lyctors, forever.
Evelyne Crowe:
And they're just evil. Period. And you're just like, "Oh my gosh." [inaudible 00:30:05]-
Daniella Drake:
But it's hard too, to say that they're evil, because-
Evelyne Crowe:
I guess that's true.
Daniella Drake:
... you have to think about living a life like that, for centuries.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's the thing. Because you watch them through the book. They were sick, the entire book. And you watch them, and you come to have a bond with them, too. They were sick, the entire book. And so you're like, "Well, shit."
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's bonkers.
Daniella Drake:
It is bonkers. It's so bonkers, and it's so hard. I've tried to get a few people to read this, and it's just... I end up saying, "Lesbian necromancers in space." Because it's just so hard to distill it down into just one sentence, because so much happens that is so beyond anything you've ever read before. And so trying to convey that to someone, without spoiling anything, is impossible. It's just impossible.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, trying to sell this book to someone is really complicated, because it's just such a complicated book. And I remember trying to sell it to you, because I knew you would like it. And I'm like, "No," and as soon as I hit, I said the word necromancy, you immediately were just like, "Ah, nope. I don't want it." I'm like, "Mm."
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I mean, generally, that is not something I enjoy. I don't really like reading about dead bodies. It's weird. But that's one of the things that I really enjoy about how Tamsyn Muir handled it, is she really did a service to it. She breaks down necromancy into bite-sized pieces. So each planet has a specific way that they use necromancy, and they're particularly skilled at it. And so, you're absolutely right, it's not necromancy the way that we usually see it. And that's one of the reasons that I enjoyed it so much is because, yes, there is a lot, there is actually a lot of necromancy in this book. But because it's handled so differently, I really liked it. There's a lot of bones being reanimated, or they try to raise ghosts at one point. It's just so many different aspects of necromancy that you don't necessarily see all the time, and I thought that that was really smart on her part.
Evelyne Crowe:
No, that's true. When you think necromancy you think of the Dungeons and Dragons movie, when they're animating full corpses, and asking them five questions and that's it. That's all they get.
Daniella Drake:
Which I did enjoy that scene. That was a great movie. Everyone should see it.
Evelyne Crowe:
That was work. Absolutely. But that's what you think of, when you think necromancy, and that's it. But no, she really breaks it down into all these different pieces, there's nine different specialties that these different people have. And you're just like, "Whoa."
Daniella Drake:
And she was smart too, because I feel like at the end, when you finally meet the Emperor, who is this big mythical figure throughout this entire book. And you finally meet him, and you start to get a hint that there's a lot more going on in the universe than maybe the characters are aware of. And even Harrow starts to go, "Oh shit. This is not what I thought, at all." And so it does make you want to read the next book. Because you're like, "Wait. So we went through all of this, and that's not even what we thought? What the fuck is happening?"
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. I'm going to have to read the fucking second book.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
I'm going to cry again. I don't-
Daniella Drake:
Of course. Because it's bonkers.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's going to be bonkers, and grimy feels, and it's going to be great. It's going to be wonderful. And I'm going to have to read it.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, probably. I'm definitely going to read it. I don't know when, but I'm definitely going to read it.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, I checked it out from the library, so it's on my Kindle right now, so I will have to do it.
Daniella Drake:
Oh, you have to do it now. There's no choice.
Evelyne Crowe:
There's no option.
Daniella Drake:
It's required.
Evelyne Crowe:
Ugh.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Why did she have to write such good books?
Daniella Drake:
I know. I don't even know what else to talk about, to be honest, because this book is so crazy.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, I do like that it is sapphic in nature, and then Gideon had to go die.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
She was the best of them, and she died.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I liked it, because she was constantly surprising everyone. Everyone would come in with these preconceived ideas of what she was, who she was, what she could do. And she was just constantly subverting their expectations.
Evelyne Crowe:
Absolutely.
Daniella Drake:
And I loved that. That was an aspect that I really, really... Because, listen, I'm five feet tall. I smile a lot. I'm a woman. People tend to underestimate me, constantly. They think I'm going to be a pushover just because I'm bubbly. And it doesn't take long for me to completely switch that off, and switch over to, "The fuck you say?"
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
So it was really awesome to see a character who was constantly being underestimated, and then just showing them up immediately, and being so capable and so smart. Even when she wasn't that smart, being able to figure things out. And it was just-
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, she was a really great foil for Harrow, too, because-
Daniella Drake:
Absolutely.
Evelyne Crowe:
... Harrow was so concerned with being number one, and being the best, because-
Daniella Drake:
Perfect. She wanted perfection.
Evelyne Crowe:
She did. I don't really blame her, because her family committed genocide for her to be the best. I mean, that was a lot of pressure put on her, as a child.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, that's big. Jesus Christ, that's such a lot of weight to put on a child.
Daniella Drake:
For sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
So she had that guilt. She had that pressure. She had all of that placed on her shoulders, and she strived every day of her life to fulfill that promise that her parents wanted. And so every day, every day was, "I have to be better. I have to be better. I have to be better. I have to be the best." And then there came Gideon, who was just the ultimate fuck up. She just was.
Daniella Drake:
I know, it's so true.
Evelyne Crowe:
And Harrow hated it. She hated it. But at the same time, she wanted to be it.
Daniella Drake:
She needed it.
Evelyne Crowe:
She wanted to be able to just allow herself to be that-
Daniella Drake:
Make mistakes.
Evelyne Crowe:
... relaxed about things.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
So she needed to have that freedom to be the fuck-up, every once in a while.
Daniella Drake:
To fail. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
So she was the ultimate foil for Harrow, and I think they were really good together, and it worked really well.
Daniella Drake:
I absolutely agree. It was so funny, because you start out, and we already said, you hate Harrow so much because Gideon has such strong feelings about her. But watching her, and learning about her, and seeing how good she is, and how much she values and really sticks to her morals. She has very clearly defined morals, and she will not cross that.
Evelyne Crowe:
No, she won't.
Daniella Drake:
It takes Gideon making the move before she's like, "Well, I can't just let you die in vain. I have... Okay, fine. I need to, you've forced my hand." But up until that point, she has constantly gone up to the edge and been like, "I'm not, no further than that. I will drain myself until I die, but I'm not going to cross this." And it's because of her parents, I think, that she has that just like, "This is it. This is the line that I come to, and that's it. I'm not going to cross it."
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, and then, I mean she doesn't just carry what her parents did to conceive her. Gideon isn't aware, until later, what her actions also cost Harrow.
Daniella Drake:
Right. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And that is something that, I mean, Jesus Christ, this is a heavy book.
Daniella Drake:
It is heavy.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because when Harrow snuck into that Locked Tomb, because that is the whole purpose of the Ninth House.
Daniella Drake:
That entire planet.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Keep that tomb locked. Never open it. Don't go in it. That is their purpose. That is it. And Harrow snuck in. She broke it. She broke the whole path. The whole planet. That was it. She broke in. And Gideon knew about it, saw her do it. Then Gideon, as a child, unwittingly, unknowingly, not knowing that seriousness of such an action, told Harrow's parents.
Daniella Drake:
Well, told one of the nuns. But yes, they told Harrow's parents.
Evelyne Crowe:
And the result of which was, Harrow's family committed suicide.
Daniella Drake:
And then Harrow pretended like they didn't. She reanimated them, and made it seem like they had just changed their diet and their beliefs a little bit, and did that for literally years. People still don't know that her parents are dead.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
That is a lot for anyone to carry.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
So you have Gideon, who had no idea that Harrow had... I mean, that was the reason why Harrow was so angry at Gideon.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And Gideon had no idea.
Daniella Drake:
No clue.
Evelyne Crowe:
No fucking idea.
Daniella Drake:
No.
Evelyne Crowe:
Gideon was just like, "Why you hate me?"
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. "Why are you being so mean to me?" Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
"I'm just a child, and now you hate me. I don't understand." And then you have Harrow who's literally ruling the whole planet, with her reanimated family. This book.
Daniella Drake:
I know. That was such a great scene, though. When Harrow finally tells Gideon, they're in the pool. This is the first time that you really see both of them just being normal with each other.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
And because it was the first time... This was more than halfway through the book.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh, God, it was almost the end. It was right before the end.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
They don't really become close to each other, or trust each other, until 70% to end. It's like, way close to the end.
Daniella Drake:
But the beauty of it is they have this heart-to-heart where they really start to see each other just as they are. Completely without their preconceived notions, without all these emotions, and stuff. And immediately after that, they have to battle. I can't, it was like some crazy construct or something, and they're in sync for the first time. They're just on the same page. They're working together. They're not fighting each other at all, and they're kicking ass.
Evelyne Crowe:
They're kicking ass.
Daniella Drake:
And because she did so much work to set that up, the payoff was so good.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. And that's good writing. I mean, that's just-
Evelyne Crowe:
It's amazing.
Daniella Drake:
... that's just good writing. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. No, she stabs you in the heart, and then it's just like... And then you're cheering. You're cheering.
Daniella Drake:
It's so good. God, this series is good.
Evelyne Crowe:
No, I know. You're like, "Oh, they're getting closer. They love each other. Yay!" And then you're, "Oh, no."
Daniella Drake:
And then they just rip out your heart, and stomp on it.
Evelyne Crowe:
The tears come again, and then you're like, "Why?"
Daniella Drake:
But also, it's bittersweet in a way, because Gideon's making the choice that she wants to. It's not like something that's forced on her. She doesn't feel like she has to do it. You know what I mean?
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
She's doing it because she wants to stop this crazy person, but it's not because she's like, "I have to do this," or, I don't know. Like there's no other choice. There's another choice. You could just let her win. But Gideon's like, "That's not..." I mean, let's be real. That's not Gideon's way.
Evelyne Crowe:
Gideon doesn't lose.
Daniella Drake:
No. That is very clear, that Gideon does not like to lose.
Evelyne Crowe:
Gideon does not like to lose. And the only way, she realizes, the only way that she's going to win this time is to lose.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. And she makes that choice willingly, and without hesitation.
Evelyne Crowe:
And Harrow, of course, has never lost a thing a day in her life. And she's like, "No, we could win this. We don't have to do that." And Gideon's like, "No, nope."
Daniella Drake:
"Nope, nope. I've done the calculations. My spreadsheet says..."
Evelyne Crowe:
"Sorry, this is how it has to be."
Daniella Drake:
And Harrow has to make that choice, too. Gideon basically says to her, it's like, "Hey, I'm already dead, so either you absorb me, or you lose me forever. So make your choice." And of course, Harrow's like, "Well, I can't just allow you to just die for no reason. That would be crazy." And then she kicks ass, man.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah, she does. Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. She's a badass now.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah, she is.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. So I do want to read the next one. I just have to get in the right headspace.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think it's going to be a lot of, at least in the beginning. It's going to be a-
Daniella Drake:
There's going to be some feelings-
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
... to work through.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
For sure. I mean, Harrow has lived through a lot already, just on the Ninth Planet, and then she gets to this crazy house of horrors. And then Gideon died. It's a lot to process.
Evelyne Crowe:
Uh-huh.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And it's so funny too, because you start off reading it thinking you're just going to be on the Ninth Planet the whole time.
Daniella Drake:
For sure. That is the way it feels. You're just like, "Oh, is this it? We're on this dark..."
Evelyne Crowe:
10% in, you're already off on a shuttle.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will say, I really appreciated the world building in this. She really just throws you in, and expects you to keep up.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh, I loved it. I loved it. It kicked ass.
Daniella Drake:
And it's so refreshing to have that.
Evelyne Crowe:
She just expects you to be smart, and I really appreciate that. I love it.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so definitely read this, if you haven't read it. I mean, we spoiled it for you, but maybe you'll be able to follow it better. I don't know.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, did we? Because I don't know if it made any more sense just talking about it, than us reading it.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I feel kind of confused. I don't know. I still love it.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, we spoiled that she dies at the end, but I mean, I feel like that's the it. That's it, really.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, there's so much that happens that we haven't even talked about, all the rest of the characters. Honestly, there are so many characters in this that when I was doing my notes for this episode, I was like, "I can't include all of these."
Evelyne Crowe:
My brain kind of just went wonky, and I think I blacked out for a minute, just making my notes.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Like I can't, because if you talk about one, you have to explain all of them. And there were just too many.
Evelyne Crowe:
All of the houses, and all of their powers.
Daniella Drake:
All of the houses, and they each have a necromancer, and their cavalier. And it's just too much.
Evelyne Crowe:
And then you have the ghosts who live in the haunted mansion place, and then you have the-
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
... and then you have the nuns, and stuff-
Daniella Drake:
The nuns, yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
... who look after the Ninth House. No.
Daniella Drake:
Nope. It was just too much.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's a very-
Daniella Drake:
And I gave up.
Evelyne Crowe:
... it's a very big cast of characters.
Daniella Drake:
So literally, on my notes, I just have Harrow and Gideon.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's about how mine went, too.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. So. But it's so phenomenal.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's so good.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
You must read it.
Daniella Drake:
You must. You must.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's amazing.
Daniella Drake:
It's important.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's necromancy in space.
Daniella Drake:
You'd be missing out, if you didn't read it.
Evelyne Crowe:
Kind of.
Daniella Drake:
Hey. Kind of? Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's like Clue, but with necromancy.
Daniella Drake:
And lesbians.
Evelyne Crowe:
And lesbians.
Daniella Drake:
In space.
Evelyne Crowe:
In space. I mean, I guess?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's pretty close.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, it's like one of those dinner parties where you go, and you have dinner, and then all of a sudden someone dies. And you're like, "Who did it?"
Daniella Drake:
Except, a little more harrowing.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah, indeed. Very nice, Dan.
Daniella Drake:
Thank you. Thank you.
Evelyne Crowe:
I appreciated that. No, for real, though. Because you're literally wondering who at the table is killing everybody?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, it's really kind of like that. So.
Daniella Drake:
It's true. You have no idea what's going on.
Evelyne Crowe:
Mm-mm.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And you're wondering if the Teacher's doing it, you're like-
Daniella Drake:
Yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
... "What is going on?"
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I did think that, for a good chunk of the book, was that Teacher was the killer. And then, obviously not.
Evelyne Crowe:
Not.
Daniella Drake:
Not.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, he's weird, but he's not a...
Daniella Drake:
No. No, no.
Evelyne Crowe:
He's weird for a different reason.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. But, yeah. Gideon the Ninth.
Evelyne Crowe:
So good.
Daniella Drake:
So good. Okay. What are we reading next time?
Evelyne Crowe:
We are reading Ilona Andrews. We're going to some classic urban fantasy, with some spicy time. This is like a husband-wife author team, and I love them. They're amazing.
Daniella Drake:
It's so cool. I love a partner duo, supporting each other.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. This is Burn for Me. So it is their romanty-urban fantasy. Is that even a thing? I don't know. But it's great.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, it's really good. So, can't wait to talk about that next time. Until then, I am Daniella Drake.
Evelyne Crowe:
I'm Evelyne Crowe.
Announcer:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Intoxicated Literature. Drink well, friends.
