Intoxicated Literature Podcast
A podcast with books, alcohol, and lots of laughter. Daniella and Evelyne are sisters who have always shared book recommendations with each other. Join us while we drink and discuss books in the paranormal romance, urban fantasy, and epic fantasy genres!
Intoxicated Literature Podcast
Seeking Stars
Evelyne and Daniella discuss Seeking Stars by Leonor Soliz. Topics include the dark side of fame, trust issues, and making learning how to swim sexy.
Announcer:
This is Intoxicated Literature.
Evelyne Crowe:
Hello and welcome to Intoxicated Literature. This is Evelyne Crowe.
Daniella Drake:
And I am Daniella Drake.
Evelyne Crowe:
We are going to be talking about Seeking Stars by Leonor Soliz.
Daniella Drake:
Yes, we are. A little bit different this time. Not a fantasy.
Evelyne Crowe:
Not a fantasy. This is a cozy, slow burn, though. She describes it herself.
Daniella Drake:
I would say that's pretty much exactly what it is.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. I thought this was right up your street actually when I suggested it.
Daniella Drake:
You thought it was up my street?
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah, I did. What's the saying? I don't know.
Daniella Drake:
Up your alley.
Evelyne Crowe:
We are Intoxicated Literature, so...
Daniella Drake:
Yes. This is a good opportunity to share, there will be spoilers. We will talk about the entire book, so if you have not read it, please push pause, go read the book and come back and join us with a drink.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes, and this is a above 18 mature audience only podcast, so if you are a minor, please vacate the premises immediately. Thank you.
Daniella Drake:
Yes, indeed. There also will be swearing, so if that does offend your sensibilities, I would recommend maybe this isn't the podcast for you.
Evelyne Crowe:
No, not me. Sorry. I swear like a sailor.
Daniella Drake:
Me too. And it just gets worse the more I drink.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh yeah. Yes, and apparently I can't remember my idioms at all.
Daniella Drake:
It's okay. My boyfriend messes them up all the time and it's one of my favorite things.
Evelyne Crowe:
Up your street should be one. I don't know.
Daniella Drake:
I agree. I agree. It sounds a little dirty to be honest.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know, up your alley sounds worse.
Daniella Drake:
Anyway. Anyway.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes, I thought this was something that you would enjoy when I suggested it because it is a cozy, slow burn and it is something that she writes exclusively is totally slow burn romances.
Daniella Drake:
It was definitely interesting. I enjoyed it. It was a three star read for me, which is not a bad thing at all. I definitely read to the end and liked it all the way through. I don't want to sound like that's not a good thing.
Evelyne Crowe:
I recommended it knowing that there might be things in here that would bug Daniella a little bit just because she has a degree in radio, TV and film. She works in the entertainment industry. She's not an actress, she's not famous. She is not out there being the thing, but she is in the industry. She knows what's what. And so when I suggested this, it takes place in the industry. The main character is a movie star and the female main character is a documentary filmmaker, and I'm like, "Oh, the technical aspects of this book are going to drive her batty. This is going to be fabulous. I'm going to recommend this book."
Daniella Drake:
I did have some questions. Yes, I did have some questions as I was reading it.
Evelyne Crowe:
This is not a knock on Ms. Soliz at all because writers don't know everything. We are just writers, and Daniella is a writer as well. We don't know-
Daniella Drake:
It does not take out anything from the story. This is a purely like, I'm thinking technically because I understand how movies get made. That's the only reason that I had any questions at all.
Evelyne Crowe:
The average reader is not going to be paying attention.
Daniella Drake:
For sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
This is just Daniella being Daniella.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
But I knew it would be hilarious.
Daniella Drake:
One hundred percent. Yes. I did. It was funny because there were a couple of times where she would set the camera to record and just put it down and they'd be in the pool together, and I'm like, "It's nighttime. Did you put any extra lights out? Because no one's going to be able to see anything. No? Okay. All right" Or "You're in the pool and you just have the little puff microphone on the camera. You don't have a boom mic anywhere? You don't think that might be an issue?"
Evelyne Crowe:
Who's holding the boom mic, Daniella? Her? She's in the pool with the camera holding a boom mic for the documentary?
Daniella Drake:
You don't have to hold it. They have stands for it. You have to be able to hear what they're saying.
Evelyne Crowe:
That wouldn't be very romantic.
Daniella Drake:
I know. Which is why I was willing to overlook it. A lot of the time it would pop into my head and I'd be like, "Whatever, this is about the romance. Stop thinking about it." I was laughing to myself as I read it.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's worth noting we actually read this as part of a pair to compare two books that were written as part of the industry in Hollywood, and we read this with... Oh crap, what is the name of it?
Daniella Drake:
Spoiler Alert by Olivia Dade.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. Spoiler Alert by Olivia Dade. So if you want to read that and then listen to this in conjunction with our podcast next week, you can do that as well.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. We are going to compare and contrast a little bit. I'm going to try not to do too much about Spoiler Alert because that'll be our next episode, but so you're aware sometimes we'll talk about the difference of approach in these books.
Evelyne Crowe:
Just so you know. But yeah, I just knew, I knew going in.
Daniella Drake:
Yes, I really enjoyed it though. I loved that the female main character was not this skinny blonde. What we would see so often, so often in these books.
Evelyne Crowe:
The typical.
Daniella Drake:
Yes, that is the word I was looking for. Yes. This is much more normal to me.
Evelyne Crowe:
Stereotypical romance female main character.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. And I loved that this was not that.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. Well, neither one of them were.
Daniella Drake:
No, no. And I thought that was awesome. That was my favorite part about both books.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because even though the mailman character, what's his name? Liam. White guy, famous, attractive, millionaire, star, whatever, he's not happy being one. He's not a confident, "I'm a millionaire." Kind of CEO kind of guy. He's not that guy. And so when you read a lot of these Hollywood romances, a lot of times that's that guy. I'm the suave Hollywood type and I know what I'm doing all the time, and I will sweep you off your feet and take you in my helicopter and we will have romantic times and it'll be amazing.
Daniella Drake:
And you never have to worry about the darker sides of fame, like people harassing you on the street or at a restaurant when you're just trying to exist.
Evelyne Crowe:
Or how exhausting it is to be a movie star.
Daniella Drake:
How you have to be "on" all the time.
Evelyne Crowe:
Or the scheduling.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
Or any of that.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
So I really appreciated that this book was not that.
Daniella Drake:
Absolutely. And one of the things that I definitely want to make sure we talk about is the fact that Liam recognizes that he's struggling and he finds a therapist. And I loved that this book was normalizing men seeking therapy.
Evelyne Crowe:
100%. And it doesn't start in the middle of the book. He doesn't like in the middle of the book, suddenly go, "I should go see a therapist." The first page of this book, he is in his therapist's office. It's not like hidden. And it's not the female main character's job to make him go see a therapist. He is already seeing a therapist.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. I loved that so, so much. You just don't really see that anywhere.
Evelyne Crowe:
Anywhere.
Daniella Drake:
It's absolutely acceptable for women to go to therapy, but you just don't see it talked about that it's okay for men and it's absolutely, there's nothing wrong with that.
Evelyne Crowe:
There is nothing wrong with that.
Daniella Drake:
So to have that be such a part of this book and to have kind of his inner monologue be in his therapist's voice, I thought was really interesting and really fun. He was like, "Oh, I hear her saying that I'm reacting to this."
Evelyne Crowe:
What would my therapist say?
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
How should I handle this?
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. And I just love that because as someone who's been in therapy, it is kind of true where it's like, "Oh, I could hear exactly what she's going to say. I know how I reacted and it was not appropriate."
Evelyne Crowe:
It was not how I should have done it.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I could have handled this so much better.
Evelyne Crowe:
Okay.
Daniella Drake:
So yeah, I loved that so, so much. So for me, that was probably the best part of the book, was that he recognized that he needed help. He sought outside help and was really taking action into changing the things that he needed to be changed.
Evelyne Crowe:
Absolutely. And the female, I keep saying she, Ana, was just going into a Hollywood lifestyle. She was just meeting her agent. She was just going in, and Liam has been established, he has been with a agent for a long time, so they're both at different spectrums on the same scale. And so we have Liam who is just exhausted. He has been going and going and going nonstop, and his therapist is going, 'No, you need boundaries." His therapist is going, "I think you can do better. You can have boundaries. You're a very strong person. You can do this." But his agent's going, "No, we are just getting momentum. If you skip this one movie, you are going to lose it all." And he's going, "I don't think that's true. I've been going for years now. And you keep saying the same thing every time."
Daniella Drake:
And it's honestly, Colton is so dead on for agents.
Evelyne Crowe:
So Ms. Soliz got that right?
Daniella Drake:
Yes, for sure. Because this is the thing is that agents usually get 5%, sometimes 10 of the commissions that their clients get. So he's just seeing dollar signs. Every time that Liam is signing a contract, he's seeing how much he's going to get out of those millions. So in his mind it's like, "I can't let this guy stop because I'm making so, so much money off of him and I need that to continue." And so it becomes kind of a bully relationship because he's like, "I know what I'm doing and I haven't led you astray yet. Look how successful you are. You haven't quite made it, but if you stick with me another few years, we'll get you there." But it's always going to be a few more years. It's always going to be just a little bit longer. And I think Liam subconsciously understands that. He's like, "I am telling him that I need a break and he is ignoring me and not just ignoring me, pushing me to do things that I told him I don't want to do. He's ignoring my boundaries." And so for me, that was part of the most realistic part of the book was Colton just being like, "I don't care what you're saying. We're doing this thing." And it's like, yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh, there was another very realistic part of the book for me, and that was honest fear of sleeping with Liam and being seen as basically a prostitute climbing the ladder. Because for Liam, it wasn't a problem. Liam is a guy and a white guy to boot, and she is not a white guy. She's a woman first, and she is a woman of color second. And she knows that the world is going to see her differently. And she is very afraid that if-
Daniella Drake:
That is her agent, Diana, who she just signed with, is basically saying all of her fears out loud where it's like, "Yeah, this sounds great in the moment, but he's going to get tired of you. And then what? You will have tarnished your entire reputation for what? You aren't going to be able to get that back. And people are just going to see you as some kind of gold digger like climbing the ladder, using this guy to get your career advanced." Or whatever and that is her biggest fear is that that is what people are going to see, even though that is not at all what is happening.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's the thing is when you see them together, that is not what's happening. There are definite feelings that are evolving and they are definitely a couple. But when you have the world looking at you and you have that camera lens, just the superficial look at a couple, and all you see is what the media is portraying-
Daniella Drake:
Which is often the case. You just see the small sliver. You don't know the full story.
Evelyne Crowe:
And she knows that because she is a filmmaker. That is her job. She's a documentary filmmaker. She's like, "My job is to do this. I know how it works." And Liam is smart. He's not stupid, but he isn't a director. He's not in charge of that. He's in front of the camera.
Daniella Drake:
Well, it's also different for him. He's very much more established, he's white, he's a guy. It's not as scary for him. I did have one major issue with this book, and this is probably just a personal, a Daniella special, as I think I should start saying, but the start of the book, the whole thing about it was he wanted to start getting back out and trusting people and establishing relationships with people because he had kind of isolated himself from everybody around him because he had trust issues and he didn't really know how to handle the fame. And the first person that he's allowed to do this with is Ana, and he falls in love with her.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh yeah.
Daniella Drake:
It was a little bit difficult for me to get past that, only because... I'm not saying that it wasn't super sweet, and I do think that it was very believable the way that it was played out, written, all of that, but I just thought that it was very convenient.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, it is a romance.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
What are you looking for? My God, Daniella.
Daniella Drake:
I would've liked him to have some friends, like someone else. So much of this book is just them talking, Liam and Ana talking. He doesn't have anyone else. There is literally no one else. He has his one friend, Logan, who's a friend of his from college, which is so far removed that I wouldn't even count it. It just felt like he was latching onto the first person that he found. And that's not to say that I didn't enjoy it. I thought that moment in the pool where they almost kissed the first time was like, wow, so good. But it felt a little forced.
Evelyne Crowe:
He is in therapy for a reason.
Daniella Drake:
He is, absolutely. But it was just, I would have liked there to be another person, just one other person, man or woman.
Evelyne Crowe:
[inaudible 00:15:57] but for guys.
Daniella Drake:
Yes, exactly. I just wanted there to be someone, one other person that he could be like, "Hey, this is happening to me."
Evelyne Crowe:
It really is because she has a friend that she can confide in that he doesn't.
Daniella Drake:
Right. He doesn't. And that was my biggest issue. He literally has no one else except for her, which okay, I understand, listen, I understand better than most people that fame is the fucking worst. And I would not wish it on my worst enemy. It is really, truly terrible. But also the people that really love you are going to love you no matter what. And I'm talking friends here, I'm talking family, I'm not even necessarily talking a romantic partner. And so having someone that literally has no one, has isolated himself from every possible person except for his agent, that just doesn't feel accurate, real.
Evelyne Crowe:
I don't know. I think I might, just because I just wouldn't want to deal with people.
Daniella Drake:
Well, and that's fair. That's definitely fair.
Evelyne Crowe:
I don't want to deal with people now. So I'm pretty isolated now as it is. So I think I can see that happening to me.
Daniella Drake:
But you also have a supportive family. You have me. I'm just saying. But you have someone that you could reach out to if something was happening to you and you're like, "I don't know what to make of this." Or "This could be detrimental to my career." Or whatever it is that you want to talk about, you have a sounding board.
Evelyne Crowe:
I guess.
Daniella Drake:
And he literally didn't have that except for his therapist. So that to me was the weakest part of the book. And also, I'm not saying that it made me not like the book, I just kept having this thought of, "Wow, he literally doesn't have anyone but her and that's so sad."
Evelyne Crowe:
I think it is sad, and I think it's meant to be sad.
Daniella Drake:
I think so too. I think so too. But I don't know. I felt like there could have been more character growth, maybe if I had seen him just talking to a friend of his and being like, "Oh, I'm working with this amazing woman and I feel this chemistry, but I don't know if I should really act on it because it's her profession and I don't want to cross the line."
Evelyne Crowe:
It was definitely a slow burn. The ham and haw was driving me fucking nuts.
Daniella Drake:
Oh, for sure. But also I got it from both their perspectives.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh yeah. I'm not saying I didn't understand, but I was like...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, I knew that you would love that.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God. Oh my God. It's just you guys. There's literally no one else there. No one is going to know, but you two.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. That was my other issue in the book is so much of it is just them two talking.
Evelyne Crowe:
Just fuck. Just fuck.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
No one's going to know.
Daniella Drake:
And I would've liked to have seen more action, whether it was sex or not.
Evelyne Crowe:
That is also just an Evelyne special. There you go. The slow burn [inaudible 00:19:13] kind of thing. It's just... Look, look, look, if you're behind a closed door and there's no one there, just bump the uglies, man.
Daniella Drake:
Just do it. Just do it.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
I enjoyed it. I liked it.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know. You did.
Daniella Drake:
I like that buildup of tension, which we've talked about before.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know. And when they finally do it, it's really [inaudible 00:19:37]
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. It's just much more satisfying, because you're like, "Oh, finally." And it's so good.
Evelyne Crowe:
It is, but then it's like over.
Daniella Drake:
And then Ana's got Evie.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Right? Who is-
Evelyne Crowe:
Evie's great by the way.
Daniella Drake:
Oh, not Evie. Ellie.
Evelyne Crowe:
Ellie.
Daniella Drake:
Right? Yeah. Ellie.
Evelyne Crowe:
Ellie.
Daniella Drake:
I think I had Evie in my notes, which is incorrect.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's not right. Ellie, she's great.
Daniella Drake:
Ellie is great. She is the best friend you could ever ask for. She is basically Ana's shield when it comes to social media and how this whole paparazzi storm kind of takes place. No one is prepared for that ever.
Evelyne Crowe:
And she was like, "Okay, here's the thing that..." Women know. And if there are any men who are listening to this, which I don't think men listen to this podcast, but if any do, hi.
Daniella Drake:
Hi, welcome.
Evelyne Crowe:
Welcome. But you may not know this, women are FBI agents, and we literally can find out anything. And if it's on social media, we will find it.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Because a lot of the time it's a question of whether we get killed or not.
Evelyne Crowe:
Exactly. So when the social media stuff just started, she was there. She was in it, and especially because it's so emotionally destructive a lot of the time, and Ana didn't want to see it. And so she had a friend who was like, "I will look at it. I will get all of the tea for you because I like drinking tea, and I will drink all of it for you."
Daniella Drake:
Yep. And I will give you little bite-sized pieces for you to digest.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. It was perfect.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. I loved Ellie. I thought she was so, so good.
Evelyne Crowe:
She was.
Daniella Drake:
And the way she interacted with Liam was so good too. It was just like, "Yeah, okay, I see you. I guess you can stay."
Evelyne Crowe:
Liam was just like, "All right. Cool."
Daniella Drake:
He was like, "I got to impress her. I know how important this is." I really liked so much of this book, the struggle of both of them to be like, "This is something that I really want, but how does it affect the rest of my life? How does it affect my career? How does it affect my other relationships? How does it affect everything else? What are the other consequences?" And I thought that was a really interesting take on fame specifically. That was a very different take, obviously, than what we're going to talk about next week, which I thought was really interesting too. Just having this idea of, you can be mobbed even if you're just going out for a cup of coffee or whatever, and you just have to really be prepared to be that much in the limelight.
Evelyne Crowe:
Or just who you date can really affect your career. And you have to really think about, is it someone I really want to be dating or is it someone I don't want to be dating?
Daniella Drake:
And your priorities too. Liam's character arc was a lot about setting boundaries and establishing trust in the right people. Where he has placed a lot of trust into Colton, who is taking advantage of that trust. He is saying, "You're making me a lot of money and I really need you to continue doing that." And Liam is saying, "I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. I'm completely burnt out. I need a break." And Colton's like, "No, no, we don't take breaks."
Evelyne Crowe:
You're fine. You don't need a break.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. So that whole last scene where... Which was, oh my God, I was yelling.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's actually a compliment to the author, the fact that you were yelling.
Daniella Drake:
Yes, I was yelling because first of all, they ambushed Ana because they brought her into this meeting for a reason she didn't understand and tried to browbeat her into manipulating someone that she was seeing romantically. And then they blindsided Liam, who was one of their biggest clients and expected her to talk him into doing what they wanted. And of course, she was like, "This is bullshit. No, this is unfair."
Evelyne Crowe:
I know. And I had a Kindle. It was on my Kindle too, and I'm like, "I can't throw my Kindle, it's $300."
Daniella Drake:
I know. It was really upsetting, and I was angry on both their behalves because both of them were put into an impossible situation, and it was so, so gross. And also for me, I was like, "I could see this happening."
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I was like, I could see this little "intervention" happening.
Evelyne Crowe:
Absolutely.
Daniella Drake:
And it pisses me off even more because I know that this is something that would actually take place in real life.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's because Ana is just getting started. She doesn't want to not get an agent. She just got this agent. She's like, "I'm finally, finally getting hired or getting an agent. I'm finally getting a step-up. I'm finally doing this. I'm not just going to be on YouTube doing these documentaries. I'm going to be getting into a bonafide Hollywood setting." And then here she is with this ha ha gotcha moment. And all she has to do is say, "Sorry, Liam, you got to do what these guys say and then screw them over." And she can step on ahead.
Daniella Drake:
Right. And yeah, it was just that moment for me, I was like, "Oh, too real, too real. I don't like it."
Evelyne Crowe:
And of course both of them were like, "Fuck you guys. Bye. See you."
Daniella Drake:
But I liked it too because it was so fucked up that Liam was like, "Yeah, no, we're done. I'm not doing this anymore. I don't care what happens to my career. You obviously don't care about my best interests, so I'm out. We're going to start the exit process. We're done here." And Colton's like, "Wait, what? No." Yeah, my dude, you can't run rough shot over people and expect them just to stay in line the entire time. That's not how people function. So that was the scene that probably got me the most, although I will say I loved him teaching her how to swim.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
I thought that was such a sweet and also erotic scene.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
And I think partly the sweetness and the eroticism is all kind of wrapped together in my brain because it was so... The feelings were obviously real at that point. He was already starting to go, "I don't know, this girl..."
Evelyne Crowe:
She was scared. She wasn't necessarily going, "I really want to fuck this guy." She was just trying to learn how to swim, and he was going, "I really, really like this girl."
Daniella Drake:
"I'm touching her now on her lower back."
Evelyne Crowe:
I know.
Daniella Drake:
Skin on skin.
Evelyne Crowe:
That was actually a really clever way of building tension, I thought.
Daniella Drake:
It was. I thought so too.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was really cool.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I really enjoyed that scene for sure. And for someone that grew up in Southern California, essentially, it was funny to me because here was a time where he asked her where she was from, and she was like, "Oh, Illinois." And he was like, "Oh, I grew up in San Luis Obispo." And she was like, "No wonder you can swim all the time." And I didn't even think about it because I also grew up in Southern California and I was like, "Who isn't swimming all the time?" We used to go to the pool, we used to go to the beach. It was like a whole thing. So of course I was like, "That's what you do. Everyone knows how to swim." So that actually, I was very thankful for that moment as well because it reminded me of my privilege and what I grew up with and how different my experience was from so many others.
Evelyne Crowe:
Exactly. It was a really sweet moment for them.
Daniella Drake:
It was a very sweet moment.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
I also really enjoyed the different teaching exercises in the pool versus the ocean, because having almost died in the ocean, I understood her hesitation.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God, fuck the ocean. That's all I'm going to say, is fuck the ocean. The ocean is going to try and kill you every time.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, I'm good. I remember thinking, "This is where I die today." And I was nine years old, so yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Fuck the ocean. The ocean is always trying to kill you. That is my-
Daniella Drake:
I will choose a pool over the ocean every time.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. Jesus Christ. Fuck the ocean.
Daniella Drake:
So I totally, I was on her side, she was like, "No, no, I don't need to go in the ocean. I'm good. I'm good." I was like, "Yeah, you tell him, girl."
Evelyne Crowe:
You're smart. You're smart, Ana. That's a smart decision. I endorse that decision a hundred percent.
Daniella Drake:
I also wanted to talk a little bit about her friend's birthday party that they go to, because this is kind of the first outing where they're showing up as kind of a couple, and it's her social circle and it still ends up online. People are posting about it. They're so excited. Whatever. Because I live in LA, you'll be surprised how many random celebrities just show up at places. You're just like, "Oh, so-and-so's here. Okay. Whatever." And it's not that big a deal because we see them all the time. And also, I work in the industry, so obviously I encounter them more often than most people. This is not a brag, this is just a statement of fact.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, when you work where you work, that's how it works.
Daniella Drake:
Right, exactly. That's just how it works, for lack of a better term. But I thought it was really interesting to me because she even makes a point of saying this where she's like, "We can go to this party, and I know a lot of the people there, but there are some people that they're inviting that I don't know. And so I don't know how that's going to work for you. I don't know how that's going to play out." Basically. And he gets the agency at that point where he gets to decide because he has more experience in this matter where it's like, "Oh no, I think it'll be okay." And I thought that was a really interesting moment because as someone who has that kind of experience, he had to have known that it was going to be leaked, it was going to be post, it was going to be whatever. But there was still, I feel like he missed an opportunity to have a discussion with her about, "Here are the possible ramifications for you."
Evelyne Crowe:
That's the thing is I feel like he knew.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
He had to have known.
Daniella Drake:
She gave him a lot of power in that situation, and I think that he kind of let her down in a way, because he didn't take that opportunity to say, "Hey, I'm okay with this, but I want you to know it probably will be posted online and you are going to now be in the limelight."
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. Because she was so sideswiped by it.
Daniella Drake:
She was blindsided for sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
By all of that. And then it was like, "But why are you...?" Because I was like, "Well, that's going to be posted." And I'm not in the industry. But I was like, "Well, that's going to be everywhere."
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's everywhere now. Sorry.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I just didn't really think that was really fair to her. And honestly, part of me thinks because he's been in it for so long, he defaults to, "Everyone knows that this is what it's like."
Evelyne Crowe:
That might be it.
Daniella Drake:
But I still don't think that makes it okay.
Evelyne Crowe:
Mistakes happen and I think that people are human.
Daniella Drake:
Oh, for sure. Yeah. We're not perfect by any means.
Evelyne Crowe:
So I don't know if it's not okay.
Daniella Drake:
Well, in this case though, this is the thing is that he has this thought a lot where it's like, "She doesn't really know what it's like." He has thought multiple times, "She doesn't really understand what my life is like."
Evelyne Crowe:
So that's a fair-
Daniella Drake:
Obviously people make mistakes. I am far from perfect. I am not one to judge.
Evelyne Crowe:
I will agree that he does often think that-
Daniella Drake:
But that was why I was like, "My dude, you had this opportunity. She gave you the agency and you could have given her a little bit back just by saying, 'Hey, I know that you don't really know these people. They're probably going to post about it. That's going to put you in the spotlight. Is that okay with you?'" Because at that point in time, she hadn't really dealt with her personal life.
Evelyne Crowe:
Couldn't he have inferred that by her even suggesting that these people are not, she doesn't know these people, that she's inferring that it's going to be posted.
Daniella Drake:
It's absolutely possible. It's absolutely possible and maybe I'm expecting too much. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Maybe it was an actual genuine miscommunication.
Daniella Drake:
I think that's exactly what happened. Yeah, for sure. It was just kind of annoying to me. But also, can we talk about the fact they had sex in that bathroom at the party?
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God, that cracked me up.
Daniella Drake:
I was laughing so hard.
Evelyne Crowe:
They're trying so hard not to be out there and being on social media, and they're going to go to this birthday party and have sex in the bathroom?
Daniella Drake:
That's what I thought.
Evelyne Crowe:
Come on, people.
Daniella Drake:
I was like, "Come on. Okay." Was it a hot scene? Sure. Do I think that that's exactly how they would act? Not really.
Evelyne Crowe:
Everyone knows you're having sex in the bathroom.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. That was the only scene in this entire book that I was like, "No, no. Absolutely not."
Evelyne Crowe:
My God. I was dying. I was like, "Really? Really?"
Daniella Drake:
And then the friend coming in and being like, [inaudible 00:34:20] use that bathroom now." Because you know that immediately she's telling everybody else they did it in the bathroom.
Evelyne Crowe:
Everyone knows they did it in the bathroom. It is not a secret.
Daniella Drake:
And that is the exact opposite of what they were trying to do was keep a low profile. So it just felt very out of character in that moment.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think also though, that they had been so careful for so long and they were just like, "We're done."
Daniella Drake:
And they had so much limited time together.
Evelyne Crowe:
And it was a friend's birthday party.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. It wasn't just some random party. I just thought it was hilarious.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was funny as hell was. I was dying.
Daniella Drake:
It was funny. I was also dying. I was laughing. I was laughing out loud for sure. Yeah. I thought it was pretty funny.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was one of those moments where you're like, "Can you imagine being the people in the living room?"
Daniella Drake:
I know. The friend that invited you was just like, "Oh, I got to bleach that entire bathroom now."
Evelyne Crowe:
And everyone's like, "Turn the music up. I can hear... Oh my God. Turn the music up."
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. So I thought that was interesting.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh God. Because you know no matter how quiet you think you are, you're not that quiet.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And this is the last thing that I have on my notes to talk about was how many people in your life you know, that if you suddenly became famous, wouldn't matter, they wouldn't care, they wouldn't look at you differently, they wouldn't do anything differently, whatever. And then you have the people like Ana's ex, Dave, who is the fucking worst.
Evelyne Crowe:
Fuck Dave.
Daniella Drake:
Who wants his 15 seconds in the spotlight. He wants his 15 seconds of fame. And so he just trash talks her and makes people go on and just bomb the ratings of her documentaries and leave horrible comments and just make her feel generally bad about herself. And it's like "My dude, why? You're going to get 15 seconds out of this, but she is going to be around forever. What are you doing?" But it made me think about the fact that trust is so important across the entire social spectrum. It doesn't matter how rich you are, it doesn't matter how poor you are, it doesn't matter if you're religious, not religious, if you're a person of color, if you're white, it doesn't matter. All of us have to choose who we put our trust into. And I think that was one of the main themes of this book was like, "Who do you trust and how much trust you give them and how much do you let them see the real you?" And all of this stuff. And it really struck a chord in me. I thought that it was a really interesting thing to talk about because fame really does bring out the best or the worst in people.
Evelyne Crowe:
It really does. Because it's like when you win the lottery, it's like money brings out the best or the worst in you. And it's kind of the same principle with fame.
Daniella Drake:
Absolutely.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's the same idea. And it's like, "Who are you when it comes down to it?"
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. That's really the main test. It's like how you treat people who are worse off than you really shows what your character is.
Evelyne Crowe:
And it's actually like when I meet someone and we go out somewhere for the first time, how do you treat the people who are serving you the food?
Daniella Drake:
100%. If you treat them terribly, we're done.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's it.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I will not be calling you again. I will not be talking to you again because I have decided that you are a terrible person.
Evelyne Crowe:
You're a shit person. And that's what it comes down to. It's like you are obviously thinking you're a better person than they are.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
And that you are more deserving than they are. So I think so, and it's an interesting question, and I challenge the audience too. Think of the people you know, who do you think would stick with you and not be asking you for money or airtime?
Daniella Drake:
Or just being out there sharing your dirty laundry. I was thinking that when I was reading this book. I was like, "Oh my gosh, there are so many people in my past that I can just only imagine sharing embarrassing stories of things that I've done." Because listen, I'm a klutz. I'm a klutz, I'm an awkward person.
Evelyne Crowe:
We're not going to talk about the time I fell in front of her house because I walked across the grass.
Daniella Drake:
I say awkward shit, I laugh at inappropriate times because it's my coping mechanism. There are so many moments that I can think of off the top of my head that someone could share with the press if I were to suddenly become famous for whatever reason, which will never happen, thank God.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's true.
Daniella Drake:
It's a question that just, this book really made me think about the people in my past and my present that maybe would throw me under the bus in order to get their 15 minutes of fame, hoping that it would lead to more. And it was just a really interesting thing that made me really think about it, which not many other books have.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think that's a really good compliment to the author.
Daniella Drake:
I think so too. I think so too.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
So that was something that I really appreciated about this. The main theme of this is definitely the rigors of fame and loneliness. How you cope with that and what you do and your actions when you do feel lonely, how do you fix it? All of that. I thought that was very compelling for sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah, I agree 100%. Absolutely. For sure. And I think that actually ties in really well with our next book.
Daniella Drake:
I agree and next time.
Evelyne Crowe:
The trust factor for sure.
Daniella Drake:
We've already talked about it, we're reading Spoiler Alert by Olivia Dade, and we're going to kind of compare and contrast the two. But we're also going to talk about just that book on its own, obviously. But we kind of did this as a twofer to see which one maybe was more accurate to the entertainment industry if there was one, which I'll be honest, I'm not sure there was.
Evelyne Crowe:
Neither author is an expert in the entertainment industry.
Daniella Drake:
You don't have to be.
Evelyne Crowe:
You don't have be.
Daniella Drake:
It's for fun.
Evelyne Crowe:
Authors are never experts really in their fields though.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly, exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
They're just writers. So says two authors, by the way.
Daniella Drake:
100%. You can only do so much research. So if there wasn't anything else, I think I covered my notes.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think that was all of mine.
Daniella Drake:
Great. Okay. So we'll see you next time. And I am Daniella Drake.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I'm Evelyne Crowe.
Announcer:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Intoxicated Literature. Drink well, friends.
