Intoxicated Literature Podcast
A podcast with books, alcohol, and lots of laughter. Daniella and Evelyne are sisters who have always shared book recommendations with each other. Join us while we drink and discuss books in the paranormal romance, urban fantasy, and epic fantasy genres!
Intoxicated Literature Podcast
A Secret Society of Irregular Witches
Evelyne and Daniella discuss content warnings in cozy fantasy, the randomness of children, and how grumpy Jamie is hilarious.
Speaker 1:
This is Intoxicated Literature.
Daniella Drake:
Hello.
Evelyne Crowe:
Hello.
Daniella Drake:
Welcome to Intoxicated Literature. I am Daniela Drake.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I'm Evelyne Crowe.
Daniella Drake:
And tonight we're going to be discussing the Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches by Sangu Mandanna.
Evelyne Crowe:
This was a cute book.
Daniella Drake:
It was very cute. I really enjoyed it, and I know that a lot of people have been talking about it, so I'm glad that we're having this opportunity to chat about it as well.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. Actually it hasn't been on my feed, but my feed on my social media is a little bit different from yours.
Daniella Drake:
I would say so. I do follow a lot of cozy fantasy readers so...
Evelyne Crowe:
Which makes sense for your brand.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. Yes. That is what I like.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. So it was very cute. And actually considering...
Daniella Drake:
It's very cute.
Evelyne Crowe:
... that people say my book is cozy, I should have more cozy books on my feet, but I do not.
Daniella Drake:
Well, this is the thing I feel like as a genre, cozy fantasy is still fairly new as its own separate thing.
Evelyne Crowe:
Cozy in general is very new.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. And I feel like we're still kind of trying to decide what that definition means.
Evelyne Crowe:
A hundred percent.
Daniella Drake:
And I think this book also has some elements to it that are surprising.
Evelyne Crowe:
We will get to that...
Daniella Drake:
And you don't really expect it...
Evelyne Crowe:
... but let's do out caveat first.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. Yes. Spoilers. We will ruin the entire book.
Evelyne Crowe:
Entire book.
Daniella Drake:
So if you have not read it, please go enjoy it, and then come back.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. There will be some adult content, but not too much. This book is fairly PG-13.
Daniella Drake:
Not a lot. Of course, we might go off on tangents.
Evelyne Crowe:
We are adults and we read lots of adult books so...
Daniella Drake:
And we are intoxicated.
Evelyne Crowe:
And we tend use profanity so...
Daniella Drake:
Yes. There will be swearing for sure. That can't be avoided, unfortunately.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. So preferably 18 or older.
Daniella Drake:
Let's get into it.
Evelyne Crowe:
I also want to add just the caveat that colonialism and adoption will be discussed in this podcast. So if that is triggering at all for you, please be aware that that will be discussed.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. Which is what I want to actually get into first and foremost, because I know that when you hear the term cozy, it means something different to everyone, I feel like.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, people hear cozy and they think non-triggering. They think safe.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
They think, I can read this, and nothing bad will happen.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. And I'm not sure that that's really the case, because especially I've read a few, so-called cozy fantasies that for me, were not cozy at all, that actually really stressed me out. Because there are a lot of themes of trauma and grief, and one of the main tropes of cozy, I feel like is found family.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
And a lot of times you don't need found family unless your family is really, truly terrible.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, and I can use my book so I don't have to bash anybody else's, and I can use my book for this.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
So when I wrote my book, I wrote it thinking it was a dark urban fantasy because it dealt with a lot of dark themes. She was...
Daniella Drake:
I remember. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... exiled from her family, kicked out, could not live with them anymore, and had to live on her own. And there was murder. And it's a whole lot of really dark themes dealing with trauma and purity culture, and a lot of really serious things. And then readers would come back to me and say things like, it felt cozy. And I remember thinking the fuck you said?
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because there is a whole page and a half of this book, if you buy the paperback, that is content warnings. Because I wanted to make sure that no one went into this book and found something that was triggering for them because I wrote it knowing that there was going to be triggering content in it because I thought it was going to be dark. So when you think cozy, you think low stakes versus high stakes, I suppose.
Daniella Drake:
I do think that that's part of it. I think a lot of people think low stakes. They think smaller, more intimate story. It's not end of the world epic fantasy type situations. And unfortunately, that does tend to lend itself to people who find each other and create their own families because they don't have families of their own or whatever. So a lot of the time you do have these characters who just have these horribly traumatic pasts that are difficult to read about.
Evelyne Crowe:
They're hard.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like most things, okay, great. So when I asked, I asked a reader, I'm like, okay, but how was it cozy? People are dying. There's murder happening and there's sexual assault and there's a lot of things that are bad in this book. And she's like, okay. But I never got the feeling that anyone was in actual danger...
Daniella Drake:
Danger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... that everything was going to be okay. And then when she was with the Archer family, everything was safe.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Right? So everything felt really okay. I felt okay in this book, regardless of what was happening and all of the trauma and all of that, by the end of it, even through it, I came through okay.
Daniella Drake:
And I think that that's kind of what the cozy fantasy genre has become to a lot of people. And it's different too. I mean, it's a lot easier for me as a white person to read something and say, oh, I read to escape. I don't have to deal with a lot of-
Evelyne Crowe:
Because we are at the, you know, we don't experience marginalized trauma.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
We do experience sexism, but that is pretty much it.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. And so when you're reading something and you're like, oh, I just read to escape. And it's just a lot easier to escape when you're not dealing with systemic racism and systems that are specifically designed to oppress you. And that's something that came up in this book. There are children in this book who have been taken from their homes and brought to a different country to be raised.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because we read diversely and because we are fairly educated, I am not saying I'm completely educated because I'm always learning.
Daniella Drake:
Absolutely not. There's always room to grow.
Evelyne Crowe:
So the author is a person of color. She lives in a predominantly white, she's British, so she has lived in Britain her [inaudible 00:06:42]
Daniella Drake:
I think she's British.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think she's British.
Daniella Drake:
Now I'm not confident that she's Bri- I think she's British.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think she's British.
Daniella Drake:
Is she Australian? No.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think she's British.
Daniella Drake:
I think she's British. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
But she's a person of color living in a predominantly white culture.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I remember getting to the part in the book where she is describing the children living in this very white, rich woman's house. And the protagonist is also a person of color who has been taken from her home in India by a rich white woman whose parents have died. And I'm going, okay, what? These white women are just stealing children of color.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
And even the protagonist is going, wait a minute. What?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. As she should.
Evelyne Crowe:
And the question is asked once.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
It is asked once, and it is kind of answered, kind of. And then it kind of goes away.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's not really answered satisfactorily for me. I was not happy with the answer. It was like, well, no one could really care for you. Like, really? No one? No one in India can care for her. There was not a single person who could set, could care for her. Not one? Really?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Okay. No. I don't believe that. So you have these adoption issues where they are disconnected from their culture and then these rich white people who are just taking these children. And not only were these children taken from their culture, Lillian especially changed their names.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I was not thrilled about that.
Evelyne Crowe:
Changed their fucking names. And I was like, what...
Daniella Drake:
I know
Evelyne Crowe:
... the fuck was that? That upset me. I mean, it was bad already. And then that happened and I was like, oh no, wait a minute. Excuse me?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I agree. That was definitely problematic.
Evelyne Crowe:
She did what now?
Daniella Drake:
I did not enjoy that part. I was like, was that necessary? Really? Really? 'Cause I don't think it was.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was not.
Daniella Drake:
No.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was not necessary. I was upset. I kind of had to put my Kindle down and get up and walk away for a minute.
Daniella Drake:
Yep. That's fair.
Evelyne Crowe:
And then there's the premise that in this book, the witches are kept separate from other witches. They are hidden from society. Not only that, they're not supposed to be exposed to other witches. So these children were taken from their culture, from everything they knew and brought to a whole foreign country. Their names were changed, and then they weren't exposed to anyone.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Just completely isolated.
Evelyne Crowe:
Just completely isolated.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I'm like, what?
Daniella Drake:
I know. I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
I have big problems with that.
Daniella Drake:
Yep. That's fair.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I know that the author is not American, and content warnings are still relatively new, even in America.
Daniella Drake:
And it's traditionally published, which I think sometimes makes a different with content warnings as well.
Evelyne Crowe:
For sure. But there were no content warnings for colonialism or adoption or anything related to this.
Daniella Drake:
No.
Evelyne Crowe:
Now I'm white and I'm not adopted. So these things were not especially triggering for me. They were upsetting because I care for children and their mental health, but I was not triggered by this.
Daniella Drake:
Right. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
So I can only imagine what it would be like as a person who could be triggered by this, who are reading this unaware. So a cozy book can be cozy, but they should still require content work.
Daniella Drake:
I absolutely agree. There have been a number of cozies that I have read that dealt with grief or past trauma of abuse, which was particularly triggering for me. I actually DNFed that book because I literally could not read it. And so many people had told me, this is such a cozy book. You'll love it. And I literally couldn't read it. And if I had known that this was, and this was just part of the character backstory. It wasn't even part of the main story.
Evelyne Crowe:
Of trauma.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I just couldn't.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, and I talked to a friend of mine who was reading a book that was considered a cozy book, and it dealt with cancer whose sister is struggling with cancer. She's like, I can't read this book. And there was no content warning. And it's like, okay, I get that it's cozy, but content warnings are there for a reason.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. At least let me go in with my eyes open. I just want to know what it is so I can prepare myself and decide if this is something that I should be reading right now. Maybe I don't read it right now, but I read it a few years from now.
Evelyne Crowe:
Here's my question to you. There are people who say that content warnings are spoilers.
Daniella Drake:
What?
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes. There's the argument that content warnings are spoilers.
Daniella Drake:
I think that those people probably don't need content warnings.
Evelyne Crowe:
Maybe a little privileged and don't need them?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Don't really understand what that's about.
Evelyne Crowe:
So here's my argument against that. Spoilers are spoilers because they give away specific plot points about characters or plot, and they tell you specifically, this character does this in the plot.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I agree.
Evelyne Crowe:
A content warning is not a spoiler because it does not tell you specifically at what point in the plot that happens to what character.
Daniella Drake:
Also, if you're worried about spoilers and you don't like content warnings, don't read them.
Evelyne Crowe:
Seriously. Just don't read them.
Daniella Drake:
You can choose not to read them. There have been times where I've skipped them because I know the book or I know it well enough that I'm like, no, it's going to be fine.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
And so I just don't read them.
Evelyne Crowe:
I have very few triggers. I have very few. I have like two.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And unless I know that that book contains those two, and they're two, very rarely are those two actually a thing...
Daniella Drake:
Right.
Evelyne Crowe:
... I am not worried that that book is going to contain them.
Daniella Drake:
Right.
Evelyne Crowe:
So I'm not going to go into a book thinking, oh no, that book's going to have them. So I might just skip the content warnings, and that's on me. That is my fault. If I skip the content warnings and all of a sudden that comes up in the book and I'm like, holy shit, there it is, that is on me.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. You don't get to be mad about it at that point because it's already listed that it's there.
Evelyne Crowe:
No. Especially if it's listed in the front of the book.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah..
Evelyne Crowe:
That is my fault.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
That is all on me.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. And this is definitely, this is one that I seen this book especially, is one that I've seen a lot recommended as a cozy.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's recommended a lot and it's not talked about because it deals with a lot of trauma.
Daniella Drake:
Every character, I feel like, in this book has trauma.
Evelyne Crowe:
Every character...
Daniella Drake:
Every character.
Evelyne Crowe:
... except for maybe, is it Lillian, the housekeeper?
Daniella Drake:
Lucy.
Evelyne Crowe:
Lucy.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Lucy is the only one.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Lillian, we don't get to know because she's dead.
Evelyne Crowe:
She's dead. We don't see her.
Daniella Drake:
We don't.
Evelyne Crowe:
Lucy, she's the housekeeper. She's like the one white woman who's alive and she's just happy. She's just there.
Daniella Drake:
She's just there. She kind of takes on a maternal role for, how do we say, do you say Mika? Do you say Micah?
Evelyne Crowe:
I went back and forth the entire time reading this book.
Daniella Drake:
The entire time, literally, I would read it 50% one way and 50% the other way, because...
Evelyne Crowe:
I really wanted a glossary...
Daniella Drake:
... I was like, I don't know what it is, and I want to get it right.
Evelyne Crowe:
... because I just wanted to know how to say her name.
Daniella Drake:
I agree. I agree.
Evelyne Crowe:
I just really wanted to know. I wanted to say it right.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Especially 'cause we were doing this podcast. I'm like, I just want to say her name right.
Daniella Drake:
Like when you look at the way it's spelled, it's spelled M-I-K-A.
Evelyne Crowe:
So it's like Micah, if you're British.
Daniella Drake:
It is like Micah. Yes. I think Micah is probably how it was intended.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think so? I think so.
Daniella Drake:
If we're wrong, I'm so sorry.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know. I'm really sorry.
Daniella Drake:
I really don't know. Yeah. But her name Mika Moon, pretty great.
Evelyne Crowe:
Pretty great.
Daniella Drake:
I love that she is in her thirties, a protagonist that is in her thirties, a fully grown adult. Love that.
Evelyne Crowe:
Absolutely.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I thought that was great.
Evelyne Crowe:
Great.
Daniella Drake:
I didn't love that there was literal generational trauma for every witch ever.
Evelyne Crowe:
Every witch ever was basically forced into solitary confinement.
Daniella Drake:
Well, and orphaned.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
They all lose their moms.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like what the fuck...
Daniella Drake:
At a young age.
Evelyne Crowe:
... was that? Not just their moms like their parents. They are orphaned.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I remember reading that and just going, huh?
Daniella Drake:
I know. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I almost put the book down. I'm not even joking. Because I'm a mom. And I just was like, nope.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. That's upsetting.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because it wasn't even like I can't read things about kids being harmed. That's one of my triggers. And I'm like, that's a kid getting harmed. Their parents are gone. Content warnings.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
But the thing is, you don't see the kid getting harmed. It's offscreen.
Daniella Drake:
No. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
But at the same time, Mika is being picked up by a strange white woman who's in India. Why are these white women traveling the globe and picking up these foreign children? What the fuck, Britain?
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
What is happening?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. But that's how it works in this book. So we just have to go with it unfortunately.
Evelyne Crowe:
And actually, Primrose and Edward are both kind of antagonists, I will say. Primrose was Mika's caretaker. I don't even want to say parent, because she was never there.
Daniella Drake:
No. She hired a bunch of nannies, and as soon as the nanny found out that Mika was a witch, she would raise her memory and send her packing and hire a new one.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
But this is the thing too. The book does address this because Mika finally says, hey, why didn't you raise me? You didn't teach me much about magic. Why weren't you more a part of my life? And it's like, oh, trauma. Trauma is the answer.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Her aunt and uncle abused her so much that she didn't want to do that to her, so she just stayed away. And that was so much worse than what it would've been if she had just been a part of her life.
Evelyne Crowe:
I was like, you should have seen me. Every time Primrose says like, I can't believe you didn't trust me and asked me this question. I was like [inaudible 00:17:41]
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like how do you...
Daniella Drake:
I'm pretty sure that's how Mika was feeling too.
Evelyne Crowe:
What do you mean why didn't I trust you? You were never there. And every time I asked you a question, you just ignored me or told me to shut up. And it was like a secret witch thing. You were never there.
Daniella Drake:
Well, and she's so baffled when she finally does ask these questions and Primrose answers her, and she's like, why would she finally answer me? And it takes Jamie going, maybe because you're both adults now.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know.
Daniella Drake:
You were a kid before and now you're an adult. And she's like, wait, oh. Like it's such a sad moment.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God. It was not a happy feeling. It was just like, oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I know. But I love Mika so much.
Evelyne Crowe:
She, for all of, her upbringing was so dismal...
Daniella Drake:
So terrible. Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
Dismal.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
He was not happy.
Daniella Drake:
Not at all.
Evelyne Crowe:
Just dismal and gray.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
If I had to pick two words to describe it...
Daniella Drake:
That would be it. Yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
... dismal and gray. And then...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. For sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
... at the same time though, she picks Jamie who is the grumpiest person.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
But at the same time, I'm like, I'm married to Jamie, so I get it.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah. But she sees who he is.
Evelyne Crowe:
She does.
Daniella Drake:
And he also has his own trauma because everybody in this book has a traumatic background.
Evelyne Crowe:
Everybody has fucking trauma.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Everybody.
Daniella Drake:
I mean, that's what the found family trope is.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Everybody has fucking trauma.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
You got Jamie who was chased out of his house by his brothers.
Daniella Drake:
I know. So upsetting.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like when I heard his backstory, I'm like, Jesus Christ.
Daniella Drake:
I know. It's awful.
Evelyne Crowe:
Jesus. I knew it was going to be bad, and then I heard it, and it was way worse than I thought it was going to be. And I'm like, oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Bye.
Daniella Drake:
And then we've got Ian and Ken, and I couldn't help but think of Ian as Ian McKellen the entire book, and I don't know if that was the intention, but that is all that went through my head.
Evelyne Crowe:
The thing with Ian and Ken is I loved them to pieces, but just every time they were talking about their past and had to live in secret, they couldn't love each other. And it was only recently they could have gotten married. I'm just like, oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. But I loved it so much. They're all so different, but they all are family, and they just accept each other the way that they are, and that's just the way that it is. And they all love each other and they're supportive, and that's what makes this book work, I think, with all of the problems it has.
Evelyne Crowe:
You know what makes the book work...
Daniella Drake:
What?
Evelyne Crowe:
... are the kids.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. The kids are hilarious.
Evelyne Crowe:
I would love-
Daniella Drake:
Terracotta-
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
Just like threatening murder the whole time that-
Evelyne Crowe:
Terracotta is fucking Jamie in miniature.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. 100%.
Evelyne Crowe:
And it's hilarious because Jamie doesn't even see it, but loves her so much. Adore it. Adore it.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. So good. So good. Yeah. And that whole thing, like Mika says when she gets there, she's like, hey, your distrust is going to put them in danger, and eventually it's going to happen. That something happens.
Evelyne Crowe:
And Jamie is all like poo poo.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. James's like, ah, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then, yeah, guess what? Catastrophe. And who saves the day? Mika.
Evelyne Crowe:
Mika.
Daniella Drake:
But I love that too, because Terracotta felt so ter- like she sat with her and was just like, oh my God, I did this. This was my fault. She told me not to do this levitation thing, and I did it anyway. And it's like, yeah, well, you're a kid, so...
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, I was going through, and it's funny because I was going through and doing all the character names for the notes and everything.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
In the book, Terracotta comes across as older than Rosetta.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
But Terracotta's eight.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. Rosetta's the oldest of the three.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
So I knew that Rosetta was the oldest, but even so...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And so you're looking at Terracotta, you're like, you're fucking eight.
Daniella Drake:
Yep. Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
You .re eight years old.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Child.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Sit your ass down.
Daniella Drake:
I know. And I love it because Mika is so patient with her, and she's like...
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh. She is.
Daniella Drake:
She kind of gets a kick out of it. She's like, I understand what's happening, and so I'm kind of letting you just like do your thing, but also please don't do that because it's dangerous.
Evelyne Crowe:
She is so patient.
Daniella Drake:
I know. Honestly, she was more patient than I would have been.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God. I would've whooped some ass.
Daniella Drake:
With both Terracotta and Jamie.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh yes.
Daniella Drake:
I was frustrated with Jamie as well 'cause it's like you have set the tone here, my dude. You are the one that needs to sit her down and say, she is trying to teach you. You need to listen to her.
Evelyne Crowe:
So with my experience as a teacher and as a mom, I would've been like, fuck you both.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
And, Terracotta, you will come to these lessons now.
Daniella Drake:
And take them seriously.
Evelyne Crowe:
There will be no more skipping.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And even if you don't do anything, you will be listening and you'll be respectful.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
There'll be no more disrespect.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I did also-
Evelyne Crowe:
'Cause you are eight.
Daniella Drake:
I know. That's the thing is she's like, well, that was one of the best lines, I feel like, as Jamie says, and I'm paraphrasing, 'cause I can't remember the exact line, but he says something like, yes, she just wanted to show up an 8-year-old child. She doesn't think that she can't beat you. It's like, what are you thinking?
Evelyne Crowe:
What? No. Even Mika is like, what?
Daniella Drake:
I know. It's like what?
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
And like, you know, well, I mean, Mika was unconscious at the time, growing a plant out of her throat.
Evelyne Crowe:
That is so funny. I'm so glad that Ian was there.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I know. Yes. Yeah. I love, oh, wait, what are we drinking?
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh.
Daniella Drake:
We forgot to talk about it. We are drinking Bee's Knees because of the beehive that Ian wants to build throughout the entire book. 'Cause he always starts projects and then...
Evelyne Crowe:
Doesn't finish them.
Daniella Drake:
... leaves them. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like when he is anxious, he's just hammering into the beehive. That's what he does the whole book.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
He's nailing into the boards of the beehive and the gin, because they drink pink gin, Jamie and...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... Mika.
Daniella Drake:
That's their bonding.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah. It's so cute.
Evelyne Crowe:
I love a Bee's Knees actually. It's very similar to a gimlet. If you don't...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. It's delicious.
Evelyne Crowe:
... like gin, it's a good cocktail for you.
Daniella Drake:
I agree. I absolutely agree. Yeah. It's very refreshing actually.
Evelyne Crowe:
It is.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It does not taste like gin.
Daniella Drake:
No. It tastes like lemon juice.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's kind similar to a lemon drop.
Daniella Drake:
But not...
Evelyne Crowe:
As sweet.
Daniella Drake:
... so sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What else did I want to talk about? Oh. The setting. Nowhere House.
Evelyne Crowe:
Nowhere House.
Daniella Drake:
Oh my God. The initial description of Ian and Ken's cottage sounded exactly like the cottage from the holiday.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
And I was like, sold. I'm in. When do I move in? Like I am here for it.
Evelyne Crowe:
I want to live in a cottage on a beach...
Daniella Drake:
Right?
Evelyne Crowe:
... right there.
Daniella Drake:
It sounded amazing.
Evelyne Crowe:
I also want to be able to call down like starlight.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. That was so cool. Yeah. Let's talk about the magic a little bit, because it was a little bit different from what you usually see with witchy books...
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
... which I liked a lot actually. It was very unique, but being able to capture moonlight and starlight and all that kind of like [inaudible 00:25:47]
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, also, the magic was always there, and it was kind of mischievous, and it wanted to be used.
Daniella Drake:
It misbehaves. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And it built up with, the more witches that were there, the more that it wanted to be used. And that's one the reasons why you couldn't be around other witches. And that was one of the [inaudible 00:26:01]
Daniella Drake:
And the little nudge that it gives her when she gets the initial note from Ian where it's like, hey, we're looking for a witch tutor. And she's like, what the fuck is this? But the magic is like, yeah, you should do it. Go.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I liked it a lot.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I thought that was really cool. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
I thought so too. And the witch fire that only works on cauldrons.
Evelyne Crowe:
Dude, when that rope ladder caught fire, and I'm like, what?
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
And she was just..
Daniella Drake:
And she goes, oh, I got this.
Evelyne Crowe:
... whatever. And even the people who are living at Nowhere House...
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
... are like oh that happens all the time. It's like it never burns the kids or anything. And I'm like, what is happening?
Daniella Drake:
I know. They're just nonchalant. Ah. It's fine.
Evelyne Crowe:
What is happening right now? And Mika is like, oh, yeah, no, that's just witch fire. I got that. [inaudible 00:26:49] And then it was gone.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. So good. I love it so much. And when they go, she finally convinces all of the people to let Rosetta go to this bookstore in town, and these kids have not really experienced an outing like this in a long time because they're witches, and these three people, four people that are raising them, they can't control the power.
Evelyne Crowe:
[inaudible 00:27:14].
Daniella Drake:
So they're like, we can't let you go out in public 'cause we don't know what to do if something goes wrong. So Mika's like, no, we need to take her out. She loves being around people. There's this bookstore that she would love. She loves reading. Please, let me just take her to this thing. And she accidentally creates a little cyclone 'cause she gets upset. It's a whole thing.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's a whole thing.
Daniella Drake:
Because she gets mad about...
Evelyne Crowe:
Comic books.
Daniella Drake:
... a comic book.
Evelyne Crowe:
They're talking about comic books. She's talking about comic books with these boys.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Of course. It's boys.
Daniella Drake:
Of course. Of course.
Evelyne Crowe:
The boys, I'm sure, think they're right.
Daniella Drake:
Of course.
Evelyne Crowe:
And she's like, no. That is not how it is in this comic book. And then the cyclone happens.
Daniella Drake:
And the boys don't even notice.
Evelyne Crowe:
They don't even notice. I love it so much because they're so intent on the comic book discussion, and then they buy the books that they've destroyed all sheepishly like we've destroyed these books, but we're going to buy them anyway, because...
Daniella Drake:
Yep. It seems only fair. I thought that was so cute.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was adorable.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I loved it.
Daniella Drake:
And I loved it too, because the whole reason it happens is because Ian is trying to play matchmaker and sends Mika off, so she can't control the magic. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like Ian...
Daniella Drake:
Oh, Ian. His heart is so big.
Evelyne Crowe:
It is.
Daniella Drake:
He just wants everyone to be happy and to be in love as much as he's in love with Ken, and you can't really be upset about it, but also, it's like, my dude, priorities.
Evelyne Crowe:
Okay. But also, did you have on your bingo card in this book that the kids would reanimate a corpse?
Daniella Drake:
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. When that happened, I was like, wait, he opened the door to what?
Evelyne Crowe:
I got to that part, and I went say what now? You did what with what?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah. It's like, why?
Evelyne Crowe:
And Mika was just like, oh, yeah, I can see how that would make sense. And I'm like, no.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
No, children.
Daniella Drake:
That does not make sense. No. No.
Evelyne Crowe:
That does not make sense in any universe. That was your first thought?
Daniella Drake:
Well, they are children.
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
I'm sure they thought if they could reanimate the bones from a distance, maybe they could convince, I don't know.
Evelyne Crowe:
But they're bones.
Daniella Drake:
And the whole thing was hilarious.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
Such a good story.
Evelyne Crowe:
I'm just like, okay, well, let's take this problem we have and magnify it by a million.
Daniella Drake:
Right?
Evelyne Crowe:
Thank you, children. I appreciate your help. Now what?
Daniella Drake:
But it had to go that way because that was the only way that she was going to call Primrose.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know. But I was like, holy shit.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. It was, wow. That was pretty epic. Yeah. There were actually a lot of really funny moments in this book. There were moments where I literally, like it made me laugh out loud.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean-
Daniella Drake:
I mean, every interaction between Mika and Jamie where she's just needling him.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh. Yeah. That was hilarious.
Daniella Drake:
So good.
Evelyne Crowe:
I even enjoyed Edward's point of view. His whole point of view is hilarious because it was so delusional.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was so delusional and everything he said, I was like, no, that's not how it is.
Daniella Drake:
I know. He had convinced himself of a truth that was absolutely not there.
Evelyne Crowe:
Completely false.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like no, my dude, that is not how the world is. No one is going ever to promote you to partner at your firm because you are just not that good.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
You have been working there how long? No. I'm sorry.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
No. That is never happening.
Daniella Drake:
It's just not going to happen.
Evelyne Crowe:
I'm sorry.
Daniella Drake:
You need to let that go right now. You have a few more years of seasoning before that happens.
Evelyne Crowe:
I think you're going to retire before that happens.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Were you surprised to learn that Primrose and Lillian were sisters?
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I wasn't that surprised either.
Evelyne Crowe:
This was not the kind of book where you were surprised by the twists.
Daniella Drake:
Not really. No. And she sets up enough kind of clues that you're going, wait a minute. Like she calls her Peony at one point.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
And I'm like, okay.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. I mean, again, this is not a book that you're surprised by the twists.
Daniella Drake:
No. And that's not the point of this book.
Evelyne Crowe:
Again, it's not... Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
It's supposed to just make you feel good.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Like yea,.
Evelyne Crowe:
It is a cozy book. You're not supposed to be like, ooh woo, surprise, shock. It's not a romantic thriller.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
So not the point.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. No.
Evelyne Crowe:
The point was that Primrose was able to let the kids stay with Mika because again, Primrose was an antagonist.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Primrose could have taken those children away.
Daniella Drake:
She was going to.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
And then Mika was like, nope, over my dead body.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yep.
Daniella Drake:
Yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God. Mika threatening Edward.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. That was so good. So good. It was so good for so many reasons.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
First of all, it was very satisfying.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
It was just very satisfying...
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
... to see Edward get put in his place. Right?
Evelyne Crowe:
[inaudible 00:32:40].
Daniella Drake:
But also, it was so satisfying seeing Mika be like, you know what? No. Fuck you. I am the strong one in this scenario. You don't get to tell me what to do or whatever. I'm the one with the power here. I am the witch. You should be afraid of me.
Evelyne Crowe:
Exactly.
Daniella Drake:
And just owning it and accepting it as a part of herself in a way that she hadn't really up to that point.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because she had been made afraid of her own power and her own person for so long, because again, trauma.
Daniella Drake:
It was a huge character moment for her.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. It was just such a great satisfactory, like I felt so much satisfaction in that moment.
Evelyne Crowe:
And then Jamie's all like, oh no, Edward's not her problem. Mika's kicking the shit out of her. He's fine.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. He'll be fine for a while.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
He might leave and not say anything.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. We don't have to worry about Edward.
Daniella Drake:
So good. But I liked it too 'cause like the very last scene is a completely different, like the first scene, you see this meeting of the Society of Witches, which is what Mika calls them, the entire book, just to needle Primrose, which I think is also hilarious, but they're meeting in the middle of nowhere and they are miserable, and they barely get to interact. They barely get to connect, and this last scene of the book is her with all of these witches in her private house. Nobody should be able to find it, such a secret place, and they're all laughing and having fun. They've got their significant others. It's just a whole different vibe.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
It's community...
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
... at the end.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's community.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And it's absolutely what was missing in the beginning and Primrose is like, don't expect this to happen all the time, and I'm thinking it's happening.
Daniella Drake:
It's...
Evelyne Crowe:
... all the time.
Daniella Drake:
All the time. Yeah. You're never going to be able to stop it now.
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
The train has left the station.
Evelyne Crowe:
Once this has happened, and not only that, I anticipate, I don't know if there's a second book after this, but I bet that curse is broken somehow...
Daniella Drake:
Right?
Evelyne Crowe:
... down the road.
Daniella Drake:
That's what I think happens too. Now that Mika knows exactly wrong. She's like, okay, we're going to fix this.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. There's no-
Daniella Drake:
Like I don't want other people to go through this.
Evelyne Crowe:
Why should the fucking parents of these kids be dying for no fucking reason?
Daniella Drake:
Right.
Evelyne Crowe:
Why didn't they stop this centuries ago?
Daniella Drake:
Right. That was my question. I was like, okay, you know what happened, but you're not going to try to do anything to fix it.
Evelyne Crowe:
The fuck?
Daniella Drake:
What the hell? I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Why not?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. It makes no sense to me. Why wouldn't you try?
Evelyne Crowe:
[inaudible 00:35:14] thing happened becau-
Daniella Drake:
It took 53 witches before. Okay, so use 56. I don't know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Seriously. Get together. Come on. The more, the merrier. What the hell?
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. I don't understand. That for me was the hugest question mark. I was like, you have identified the problem, but you're not going to try to fix it?
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
What? Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
The solution is just to ignore it?
Daniella Drake:
Right. I'm like I don't understand.
Evelyne Crowe:
Okay. That doesn't what?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
The solution is not just to ignore it. It is to just try not to have kids?
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Ever?
Daniella Drake:
Right. Right. Okay. Sure.
Evelyne Crowe:
That seems counterintuitive.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Also counter to biology.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Especially prior to birth control.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I don't understand. Yeah. It was baffling to me, that part, but what do I know? Also, can we talk about the bestest dog?
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
Such as a sweet puppy.
Evelyne Crowe:
Little golden retriever.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
I love her so much.
Daniella Drake:
Loves her.
Evelyne Crowe:
So cute.
Daniella Drake:
So cute.
Evelyne Crowe:
And written like an absolute golden retriever.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
One of the best written golden retrievers I have ever seen.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I would be surprised if she doesn't have a golden retriever.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Right?
Evelyne Crowe:
A hundred percent.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I wish I could magic away my lab's hair.
Daniella Drake:
That was like, every once in a while you read these books and you have the one spell where you're going I really want to be able to do that. That was the one where I was like...
Evelyne Crowe:
As soon as she said I magic-ed it away. I'm like, oh...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... that would be amazing.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's everywhere.
Daniella Drake:
It's everywhere. And it doesn't matter what you do, how often you brush it. I'm like, it doesn't matter.
Evelyne Crowe:
Nope.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Nope.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
I brush her every day.
Daniella Drake:
I know. It doesn't matter.
Evelyne Crowe:
Doesn't matter.
Daniella Drake:
Nope. It just gets everywhere.
Evelyne Crowe:
Everywhere.
Daniella Drake:
But then you have the love, so...
Evelyne Crowe:
The love.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. You can't really be mad about the fur because the love, unconditional love.
Evelyne Crowe:
That was the most golden retriever in a book I've ever seen.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. Absolutely.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
Did you want to talk about the fact that this is technically a slow burn romance?
Evelyne Crowe:
I laughed. I wasn't really even that mad. I just thought it was hilarious. I got finally through the culmination, so it is a grumpy sunshine trope.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
For sure.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, there is no hesitation about that.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. Absolutely.
Evelyne Crowe:
Definitely a grumpy sunshine trope.
Daniella Drake:
He literally calls her sunshine...
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh yeah.
Daniella Drake:
... at one point, I feel like. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And he's the grumpiest of grumpy.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
He just scowls all the fucking time until they get together. Their sex is the happiest sex I've ever seen. It's the [inaudible 00:38:22] sex ever.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's so funny.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's so sweet. I mean...
Daniella Drake:
It's very sweet.
Evelyne Crowe:
... don't get me wrong, I loved it.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was great, but it was so funny.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I actually really liked it because at some point she's like, you're so good at this, and he gives her this silly little smile. I'm like, aw.
Daniella Drake:
I know. It's so sweet. You're like, aw.
Evelyne Crowe:
[inaudible 00:38:42] cute little baby. I love you.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. So you got this grumpy, sunshine thing, but yeah, 87%.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I know. But the thing is like, when I think about this book, I don't think about the romance first.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, that's because of all this fucking trauma you got to wade through before you get to the ends.
Daniella Drake:
Well, yeah, that. And the magic, and... You know...
Evelyne Crowe:
This is not, an I escape the world book.
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
This is a colonialism on tap book.
Daniella Drake:
It is. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Holy shit.
Daniella Drake:
That said, I still cry at the end.
Evelyne Crowe:
I did not cry.
Daniella Drake:
Her little speech about like, I never thought that I would be in a place where I had so many people to love me and I could be loved, and that whole thing, I cried.
Evelyne Crowe:
I did not cry.
Daniella Drake:
It got me.
Evelyne Crowe:
I didn't cry. I will give you that. I mean, it's not that I wasn't emotional, but I didn't cry. But yeah, colonialism untapped, lots of trauma, but it is resolved.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
There is a resolution.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
You do feel like, okay, found family, safety, safety nets.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
There is going to be a resolution to this. Everyone is going to be safe.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
The kids are going to be wall cared for.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh my God. At the end when they're at the party... Oh God.
Daniella Drake:
Oh. Rosetta...
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
... is just staring longing, lovingly at Belinda, who is... Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
So Rosetta, who's the one Black child, is staring at Belinda, who's the first Black woman she's been in contact with, and she's just like...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... you're amazing. And I was just like, oh my God.
Daniella Drake:
I know. Yeah. I also clocked that. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, I might've teared up a little bit at that.
Daniella Drake:
That's fair. There were a few moments where I teared up, and that was one of them.
Evelyne Crowe:
I mean, just because, I mean, my God.
Daniella Drake:
But I still felt happy at the end of the book.
Evelyne Crowe:
You did.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
You did.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Well, because Mika is there. She's going to make sure those kids are okay.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Again, there's a resolution. You feel like everything's going to be safe and fine.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Which is why it's a cozy.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. Absolutely. I did not come away from this feeling sad, but it does deal with heavy stuff. I do wish it did have content warnings for people who would be triggered by the heavy stuff.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I do. I have to do some research to see how common that is with traditionally published books versus indie, because I know indies especially are better about it than traditionally published books are. But also like the cultural difference between an American published book and a British public book, 'cause I feel like it is a very American specific thing.
Evelyne Crowe:
And content warning should be a thing.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I agree. I agree.
Evelyne Crowe:
Even with cozy books.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yep. I would almost say, especially with cozy books. 'Cause if you think that you're getting something that's cozy, and then... Because I've had it happen to me where you think this is going to be...
Evelyne Crowe:
That's the thing.
Daniella Drake:
... a feel good read.
Evelyne Crowe:
... if people pick up a cozy book and I think it's going to be sweet and nice and not going to be triggering, and then all of a sudden get whacked upside the head with something that's upsetting, that seems even more... Like if I pick up a dark romance book, I expect things that are dark in there.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly. But even an epic fantasy, you just know...
Evelyne Crowe:
Right.
Daniella Drake:
... that there are going to be things in there that are upsetting.
Evelyne Crowe:
Like if I pick up George R. R. Martin, I know that there's going to be violence against women. I know.
Daniella Drake:
Right. 100%. Like you just know that's a given. Like that's just going to happen. But even just general epic fantasy, you know there's going to be violence.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
You just know that that is something that is going to be in there. Whereas with a cozy, the assumption is you're not really going to have those things, and that doesn't seem to be the case a lot of the time. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It seems to be the case...
Daniella Drake:
I agree.
Evelyne Crowe:
... based on talking with people.
Daniella Drake:
And I do think that it's growing pains a little bit. We're still trying to decide what cozy means.
Evelyne Crowe:
I agree.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's still very new.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's very, very new.
Daniella Drake:
We haven't really decided yet what that genre really is, and I think until that really gets defined, we're going to be running into this issue.
Evelyne Crowe:
I agree.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
And until content warnings become a standard...
Daniella Drake:
Standard. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... in publishing period...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... this is going to be an issue.
Daniella Drake:
Absolutely. Yeah. Unfortunately that is true.
Evelyne Crowe:
And this is where indie publishing is going to be driving traditional publishing again.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
Because that's what indie publishing does.
Daniella Drake:
Traditional publishing is the Titanic trying so hard to steer away from the iceberg, but it's already been hit. And it's just floundering.
Evelyne Crowe:
It takes a while. It's a little behind the times.
Daniella Drake:
It does.
Evelyne Crowe:
But it does catch up eventually.
Daniella Drake:
It does. And that's not to say that I don't appreciate traditional publishing 'cause I absolutely do.
Evelyne Crowe:
Any other indies that get picked up by traditional publishing, and then their books get out and they get bought...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... and it's great.
Daniella Drake:
Absolutely.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's wonderful.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
But it just takes a while.
Daniella Drake:
Yes. So general feelings about this book...
Evelyne Crowe:
I did give a five stars.
Daniella Drake:
... five stars.
Evelyne Crowe:
I actually really enjoyed it. It was a quick read.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was fun. I was...
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
I had no, I did at the end was like, yay. I did not appreciate. I just thought that there was an important conversation that needed to be had. That was it.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
But it was not because I did not like the book.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. No. I very much enjoy it. I actually reread this book for this podcast, and...
Evelyne Crowe:
So I own it in Kindle and the paperback now. It was not because I did not dislike it...
Daniella Drake:
Enjoy it. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. I like the book.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It's just...
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... it's an important conversation to have because it's a developing genre.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Right.
Evelyne Crowe:
That's it.
Daniella Drake:
Exactly.
Evelyne Crowe:
Five star. Do recommend it.
Daniella Drake:
And I'm sure we'll have this conversation again.
Evelyne Crowe:
Oh. I'm sure. I'll read another book with no content warning and be like, what the fuck?
Daniella Drake:
I know.
Evelyne Crowe:
There was a child death in this.
Daniella Drake:
I know. I know. But we do recommend this book.
Evelyne Crowe:
Absolutely.
Daniella Drake:
It was very good. Just make sure that you know what the topics are when you go in.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yes.
Daniella Drake:
And what are we reading next time?
Evelyne Crowe:
We're reading Grave Witch.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
We're very excited.
Daniella Drake:
Love this.
Evelyne Crowe:
This is one of those early, like 20 teens.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. I want to say 20 teens.
Evelyne Crowe:
20 teens is actually, I don't know if any of you know about vaginal fantasy, but Felicia Day used to run a book club called Vaginal Fantasy.
Daniella Drake:
Yep.
Evelyne Crowe:
And this was a book that they picked and I read it with them, and this was one of them. And I really...
Daniella Drake:
I also read it with them.
Evelyne Crowe:
... really enjoyed it.
Daniella Drake:
And I remember it. Like there was only the first one that was out when they read it, and we had to wait for each book to come out, and it was so exciting every time.
Evelyne Crowe:
I know.
Daniella Drake:
And the newest book came out last year.
Evelyne Crowe:
No.
Daniella Drake:
No.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was a while ago.
Daniella Drake:
It was a while ago, I guess.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was in the teens still.
Daniella Drake:
Was it really? God.
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. I checked.
Daniella Drake:
My sense of time is so...
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah.
Daniella Drake:
... so fucked. What year is it? Where are we?
Evelyne Crowe:
Yeah. 'Cause the first one came out like, the first one came out in like 2012...
Daniella Drake:
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
... and then the last one came out 2017...
Daniella Drake:
Okay. That makes sense.
Evelyne Crowe:
... I would say.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
It was, yeah. No. It's Grave Witch by Kalayna Price.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
But it's an urban fantasy.
Daniella Drake:
Yes.
Evelyne Crowe:
We're delving back in.
Daniella Drake:
Yeah.
Evelyne Crowe:
All right.
Daniella Drake:
So this is Intoxicated Literature. I am Daniela Drake.
Evelyne Crowe:
And I'm Evelyne Crowe.
Speaker 1:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Intoxicated Literature. Drink Well, friends.
